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u98037
would you be better off knowing how the universe works, or not knowing that there is a universe at all?
lovine
haha! tough!! the easiest way out is not knowing anything. you're in no obligation to act a certain way, you have nothing to uphold. i think the beauty in complete and total ignorance is the fact that you don't even know that you don't know anything! but then life becomes an illusion.. and you can't live in the light of the truth..

and if you knew eveything about the world: "know what the magician knows, and its not magic anymore". diba? if everything made sense to you rationally, then there wouldn't me as much to experience from life as we do now. if everything that happened to us, if everything in the world could be explained, it takes away a certain sense of excitement, and the human aspect of living. i would become a cold, rational person. does that make sense? if i knew everything, i would lose touch with my emotions. i guess thats what im tryng to say. smile.gif

so to answer the question.. i'd choose to be absolutely ignorant. having ultimate knowledge takes away more than what it would give me. but of course im not sure cos we dont know how it would be like to know everything!
harv
I don't think so, lovine. The more I know, the more I appreciate what I know and the more I appreciate what I experience. I have liked hearing and reading stories for as long as I can remember. But taking up English classes and learning the intricacies of fiction and the techniques allow me to understand stories better and hence enjoy them all the more.

I'd rather know everything. I'd feel constant awe and wonder at everything instead of disenchantment.

On the other hand, not knowing anything is just being dead. There is no life if there is no consciousness.
lovine
i understand what you're saying harv, but the question is in the context of total knowledge: do you want to know *everything*? the more we understand underlying principles/elements of things we experience, i can also testify that the more we seem to appreciate it. however, this is with the assumption that we do not know everything yet. yes, we appreciate it because we see things that we didn't see before. but when you reach the point of perfection, when "more" doesn't exist.. what happens?

have you ever played opposite on those nokia 7100 series? the computer is mathematically preprogrammed. my friend discovered a way to defeat it, to get a perfect game in nothing less than 7 moves. at that point when you discover and unlock the secrets of what lies beneath what you see, once you understand everything in totality, the essence of the game dies. it starts to suck. it becomes boring. isnt this the disenchantment that you were talking about? im sure there are other examples that would seem more appropriate, like fiction or music in where possibilities can seem endless. but we have to put that in a framework of TOTAL knowledge. i can expound more on this, but its 3am and i have class tomorrow morning.

i think the point you were trying to make is with the direction man chooses with his life - to learn more, or be content with nothing. no contest on this one.

see, i think the beauty of being human lies in our imperfections. although we can't truly be perfect, its the fact that we can make more out of ourselves that makes life more exciting than what it would be if we chose to remain as we are. :cool:
pathos
This question was actually raised in one of the TV shows called Fantasy Island.

Anyway, the main message: Some stuff are better off left alone in the dark. Some secrets are better off kept.

Knowledge is if absolute may be the truth. And everybody knows that what hurts most is to listen to the TRUTH.

It would be great to know everything but it sux the whole idea of living a life.

I'd rather be in absolute ignorance because I wouldn't be aware of other forms of contentment except the contentment that I would be aware of in my ignorance.

-----
m stuck high above biggrin.gif
sentiboy
i don't care about how the universe works,
i just want to know whether she likes me or not.
lovine
women will always be more difficult to understand than the mysteries of the universe... smile.gif aaghh!! wink.gif
hypercube
here's another point, now that women are involved...

to sentiboy...

would you rather be absolutely ignorant and not even get to know about her at all or be absolutely knowledgeable and possibly know that she may not like you? smile.gif

(not that i'm discouraging you or anything. good luck!)
sentiboy
lovine: I so agree with you! Although we guys are probably as much as mystery to them as much as they are to us.

crux: To be absolutely ignorant or to be absolutely knowledgeable is not only impossible, it also does not matter. We, as human beings have the capacity to change. The one whom you love (in THAT way) now may not be the same person you love (in THAT way) tomorrow. Hence, prior knowledge or ingorance can be dismissed because it can only cause illusions and delusions.

For me, what matters most is the present and what is real. All I know is that what I feel for her, here and now, is real. I just can't help but wonder if she notices it or if she likes me too, although that is not something that I should expect because the reality could possibly hurt me.

[ April 11, 2001: Message edited by: sentiboy ]
hypercube
QUOTE
Originally posted by sentiboy:
[b]lovine: I so agree with you! Although we guys are probably as much as mystery to them as much as they are to us.

crux: To be absolutely ignorant or to be absolutely knowledgeable is not only impossible, it also does not matter. We, as human beings have the capacity to change. The one whom you love (in THAT way) now may not be the same person you love (in THAT way) tomorrow. Hence, prior knowledge or ingorance can be dismissed because it can only cause illusions and delusions.

For me, what matters most is the present and what is real. All I know is that what I feel for her, here and now, is real. I just can't help but wonder if she notices it or if she likes me too, although that is not something that I should expect because the reality could possibly hurt me.

[ April 11, 2001: Message edited by: sentiboy ][/B]


True, it is virtually impossible. But then again, change would also be irrelevant if one becomes absolutely knowledgable or irrelevant, because awareness towards being able to predict all things would either be absolute (therefore there will be nothing new to one when things change, since absolute knowledge will simply then cause a mere expectating of change) or nil (therefore there will also be nothing new to change, because one would not even be aware of the change in the first place.).
sentiboy
QUOTE
change would also be irrelevant if one becomes absolutely knowledgable or irrelevant


I thought we already established the fact that being absolutely knowledgeable is virtually impossible? (you even agreed with me)

And what do you mean irrelevant? maybe you mean ignorant?

And who are you to say that absolute knowledge would result in expectation/non-expectation of change when it is impossible in the first place?

You, sir, are contradicting yourself.
or am I missing something here?

[ April 12, 2001: Message edited by: sentiboy ]
hypercube
QUOTE
Originally posted by sentiboy:
I thought we already established the fact that being absolutely knowledgeable is virtually impossible? (you even agreed with me)

And what do you mean irrelevant? maybe you mean ignorant?

And who are you to say that absolute knowledge would result in expectation/non-expectation of change when it is [b]impossible
in the first place?

You, sir, are contradicting yourself.
or am I missing something here?

[ April 12, 2001: Message edited by: sentiboy ][/B]


Um, I used an "if," so therefore I was talking about the hypothetical situation wherein being either absolutely knowledgable ignorant or ignorant is possible, and is attained.

If you however insist on the impossibility, then this thread itself will be rendered irrelevant.
burger_brown
to be possess ultimate knowledge or absolute ignorance? ... i'd rather choose to be absolutely good-looking.

seriously though... I'd rather be absolutely ignorant. For what else is there to live for when one has already attained the "ultimate" of things. What else must one struggle for when he/she is already absolutely certain about everything?

To be human is to perpetually "work" on being human. Where would "striving to be human" come in when one is absolutely certain
how to annihilate human strife? Absolute knowledge would not let us "be."

... now, do you see why I'd rather be absolutely gorgeous? ;D
Saturnyne
i'd rather have ultimate ignorance than ultimate knowledge...

sometimes,its depressing to know and discover that your efforts of trying to correct mistakes in your surroundings result to nothing...some just say that 'ganon talaga, walang magagawa'...it's just crap when you try to help and people just continue their wicked ways just because "nakasanayan na nila", little deeds (even if done with great love) remain only as little deeds instead of stepping stones for change...so to save myself the depression and anger, i'd rather be ignorant...if i can't beat ignorance, then i'll just embrace it

[ April 20, 2001: Message edited by: Saturnyne ]
sutil
i think the whole joy in life is always wanting to know more. if we do have ultimate knowledge there will be nothing to "want" anymore and it makes life pointless or rather the joy that we derive in our knowledge of something new is taken away from us.

nawawala ang pagka-bulaga natin sa buhay tongue.gif
lovine
so can this imperfection be the reason why we live in this earth? can this imperfection be a reason why we *know* that we're *imperfect*? because we have a higher need to fulfill it?

why did god create us? he didn't need us in the first place.. right? since he's perfect, he won't need anything else. would he want anything else? would he want to create man, a man who'd question his own intellect, a man who would strive to be more? a man who would strive to be, "moral", perhaps?

what is this place? do you guys think of these questions too?
kivan
Wouldn't this question be a "Catch-22" question (that is, you're damned when you do, and damned when you don't)?

If one had ultimate knowledge, then that person wouldn't have to do anything else during his or her life; they know everything. Quite boring (imagine how someone like God would feel).

On the other hand, those with absolute ignorance would presumably be happy in their lack of knowledge. Ignorance, as they say, is bliss, and no one could bring them away from their status quo.

Perhaps Socrates said it best when he said that the best situation one can find himself in is between the two; this would justify the lifelong learning process, and would then become a real driving force for one to live his / her life.
GUD_BADOODLES
I could only speak from experience. As a teenager, I thought I knew everything. Until I found out that I have much to learn. And now that I know I still have much to learn, I could plan my life.
Faraker
nasty clincher:

what if you were ignorant that you actually possessed ultimate knowledge of everything? hehehe, i know it's contrary premises but treat it like a kind of amnesia thing.

this is given that the premise of ultimate knowledge is possible. this doesn't mean that you are still human... biggrin.gif
Dearth
I'd rather have ultimate knowledge. Including when, where, how, and why I'll die. I'd rather suffer the knowledge that I'm unable to affect some things in life. At least I won't commit wasted effort to such things. I'd rather accede to the fact that fortune and luck will vanish with ultimate knowledge. I'd rather suffer the "boring", the "dour", and the "tasteless".


Rather than eking a life out of the darkness. Rather than supplicating to superstition. Rather than fearing upon the unfounded. Rather than hoping in futility. Rather than being a pawn of oblivion.
blued
i think ignorance is bliss as long as the person is ignorant of his state. once the person realizes his ignorance, then he/she would strive to be as learned as possible. smile.gif

i hope i made sense there biggrin.gif
PRIS0NER
i prefer the truth, no matter how tasteless, cruel, bitter, scathing, and outright painful it is.
raven
I'm afraid of the FULL responsibilities of knowing everything. Because I believe that in knowing everything, one is moved to act. For example, if you knew that the Holocaust would happen, would you not, being human, do something to prevent it?

The burden of ultimate knowledge, is too big to bear, and to keep to yourself.

Therefore, with all sincerity, although the concept of ultimate knowledge is definitely tempting, I would prefer absolute ignorance. Because it's true what they say, "ignorance is bliss." For example, you had been living a life like a rich person, only to find out that your family is absolutely penniless and it was all just a facade. The emotions, the burden is simply too much to face at one time.
shohoku
Ignorance is never bliss, so I would rather have ultimate knowledge. :confused:
[soldierOFchaos]
yep shohoku, i do agree with that.
but for this one, i'd rather know nothing at all. it scares me whenever i think of death and the final seconds of existence...syet :eek:
toink
i dunno... both are on the extremes, meaning it's hard to be so ignorant and it's hard to know everything.
wait, but then, if you know everything, you would know why all these things are happening. you'll learn to accept life for what it is and not worry about yourself or other people. besides, we're made to be human. we do feel although we may be absolutely ignorant. tongue.gif
vader
I've always considered myself a "drifter." I believe that no matter how much knowledge we've gained from others and from personal accounts as well, the fact remains that we will forever be ignorant about the "whats and wheres of this so-called life"... isn't that amazing?

[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: paka ]
mucknugget
ultimate knowledge.

i'm curious.
vader
QUOTE
Originally posted by shohoku:
Ignorance is never bliss.knowledge.    :confused:


I don't think so. Have you ever been to remote places in this country? I think they live more blissful lives.


"Everything is relative."
vader
QUOTE
Originally posted by TAU:
This question was actually raised in one of the TV shows called Fantasy Island.

Anyway, the main message: Some stuff are better off left alone in the dark. Some secrets are better off kept.

It would be great to know everything but it sux the whole idea of living a life.

I'd rather be in absolute ignorance because I wouldn't be aware of other forms of contentment except the contentment that I would be aware of in my ignorance.

-----
m stuck high above   biggrin.gif


I agree to all of the mentioned statements.

"Napakasarap mabuhay"
Vulgslayer
If I would have ultimate knowledge, then I would never know the answer to this particular question: "What is it like to be blissfully ignorant?" Have I gained ultimate knowledge after all?
toink
Vulgslayer, that is just so... i dunno but it has this ka-blam impact on me.
krabbypatty
This is a hard one...erm.. if I have absolute knowledge, I will be absolutely mad and crazy. Ignorance nalang. The less you know, the better.
Chipmunk
if there is one man (or woman) who knows everying
then noone will be anyone's friend
lance0532
Especially for those who wanted to be ignorant...(Lovine: you caught my attention on your view)

Although this seems to me a senseless question, since you can never have either, I believe that:

"I would rather die knowing something than die without knowing what that something is or is not."
Indian Pana
Hmm...

I totally agree with Lovine.

But we all know that it's impossible to be either have ultimate knowledge or absolute ignorance right?

Life is a mystery. I'll leave life as it is. A mystery. smile.gif
skeptic173
absolute ignorance..

pag marami kang alam.. isipin mo.. ikaw yung pagtatanungan parati.. ikaw yung ieexpect parati ng mga tao na gagawa ng action sa mga bagay bagay na hindi nila maintindihan.. ikaw yung parati nilang ihaharap sa mga sitwasyon na hindi nila kaya..

masaya yan sa simula.. kasi special ka.. pero.. putcha.. nakakatamad rin yan..

mas maganda pag wala kang alam.. ikaw yung magtatanong.. ikaw yung mangungulet..
tesseract
As my high school teacher once put it,

"WALA KAYONG ALAM."
cnight
i remember reading a story about a kid who doesn't wanna go to school anymore. when asked by his mother why, he replied, "intelligent people don't live long. Just the other day i heard that a man got killed by the mob 'coz he knows too much already..."
kidding aside, i'd like to think otherwise... remember the tale about the moth caught in the lamp's fire? i'd rather have a short life knowing how the universe works, so i can share it to others.
clinging to ignorance is utter selfishness. if you're given the chance to acquire the ultimate knowledge, take it and then share it. we'll all die anyway.
skeptic173
QUOTE
Originally posted by cnight:
i remember reading a story about a kid who doesn't wanna go to school anymore. when asked by his mother why, he replied, "intelligent people don't live long. Just the other day i heard that a man got killed by the mob 'coz he knows too much already..."
kidding aside, i'd like to think otherwise... remember the tale about the moth caught in the lamp's fire? i'd rather have a short life knowing how the universe works, so i can share it to others.
clinging to ignorance is utter selfishness. if you're given the chance to acquire the ultimate knowledge, take it and then share it. we'll all die anyway.


di ko masyadong maintindihan kasi ingles.. pero may gamugamo na namatay sa apoy.. tama.. alam mo na nakakamatay na yung apoy.. e patay ka na e.. pano mo pa mashashare yon?
batangnawawala
QUOTE
Originally posted by cnight:
i remember reading a story about a kid who doesn't wanna go to school anymore. when asked by his mother why, he replied, "intelligent people don't live long. Just the other day i heard that a man got killed by the mob 'coz he knows too much already..."
kidding aside, i'd like to think otherwise... remember the tale about the moth caught in the lamp's fire? i'd rather have a short life knowing how the universe works, so i can share it to others.
clinging to ignorance is utter selfishness. if you're given the chance to acquire the ultimate knowledge, take it and then share it. we'll all die anyway.


pag bobo ka, walang problema...kasi hinde mo rin naman alam kung ano ang problema e.
Baxy
i'd like to speak from neruda's thoughts..

And i wrote the first faint line,
faint, without substance, pure
nonesense,
pure wisdom of someone who knows nothing
cnight
skeptic173 sez:

di ko masyadong maintindihan kasi ingles.. pero may gamugamo na namatay sa apoy.. tama.. alam mo na nakakamatay na yung apoy.. e patay ka na e.. pano mo pa mashashare yon?

--------------------

sabagay. biggrin.gif
halimbawa lamang iyon. pero kung bibigyan ka nga ng pagkakataong matamo ang sukdol na karunungan, e bakit hindi? marahil natatakot tayo sa problema, at upang makaiwas tayo rito tatanggihan na lang ba natin ito? bahag ang buntot ng taong tumatakbo sa mga suliranin.
Baxy
QUOTE
Originally posted by cnight:
skeptic173 sez:

di ko masyadong maintindihan kasi ingles.. pero may gamugamo na namatay sa apoy.. tama.. alam mo na nakakamatay na yung apoy.. e patay ka na e.. pano mo pa mashashare yon?

--------------------

sabagay.   biggrin.gif
halimbawa lamang iyon. pero kung bibigyan ka nga ng pagkakataong matamo ang sukdol na karunungan, e bakit hindi? marahil natatakot tayo sa problema, at upang makaiwas tayo rito tatanggihan na lang ba natin ito? bahag ang buntot ng taong tumatakbo sa mga suliranin.


i'm confused.. :confused: :confused:

can somebody shed light on this?
skeptic173
QUOTE
Originally posted by cnight:
skeptic173 sez:

di ko masyadong maintindihan kasi ingles.. pero may gamugamo na namatay sa apoy.. tama.. alam mo na nakakamatay na yung apoy.. e patay ka na e.. pano mo pa mashashare yon?

--------------------

sabagay.   biggrin.gif
halimbawa lamang iyon. pero kung bibigyan ka nga ng pagkakataong matamo ang sukdol na karunungan, e bakit hindi? marahil natatakot tayo sa problema, at upang makaiwas tayo rito tatanggihan na lang ba natin ito? bahag ang buntot ng taong tumatakbo sa mga suliranin.


actually.. people arent afraid of the problems that could come their way when they know too much.. well i know im wont be afraid, because if i have the ultimate knowledge, i can solve any problem that would come my way..

but here's the thing.. everyone cant possibly have the ultimate knowledge.. so who will they turn to if they cant solve their problems? who will they turn to if they cant understand something? of course theyll ask someone who knows everything.. someone who knows more than them.. someone like me, if ever i have the ultimate knowledge.. imagine almost everyone in the world would turn to you for answers.. everyday, youll listen to questions, and since you have the ultimate knowledge, questions like "if theres a god" and "if there are living things in other planets" would seem stupid to you.. dont you just hate talking to stupid people?

but there.. thats basically my point.. im not afraid of the problems, but i just dont like the fact that youll be "the walking encyclopedia" of the people..
cnight
well, it's really annoying when people tag along with you asking you all sort of questions. but then it's not really a good idea to tell everyone you're the smartest ass in the whole universe. aside from making yourself look like a know-it-all braggart and nosy people chasing you, countries may acknowledge you as a threat to their national security. well, better keep it to yourself and make your brilliant contributions to the world remain in anonymity. with that in mind, it takes a some weight off the responsibility you call "the 'walking encyclopedia' of the people."

[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: cnight ]
skeptic173
QUOTE
Originally posted by cnight:
well, it's really annoying when people tag along with you asking you all sort of questions. but then it's not really a good idea to tell everyone you're the smartest ass in the whole universe.


ah.. there you go.. thats our difference.. i dont brag..
vader
galeng!!!
-=.LoReLai.=-
i'd rather be a complete ignorant cos you'll have so much more to learn and there's no pressure on you to do that and believe that and etc, etc, etc... rolleyes.gif
KiM!!
i think i prefer absolute ignorance. a glass will not be able to contain any more water if it has already reached its capacity. an empty glass on the other hand, can still contain whatever liquid you want to put in it. smile.gif
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