Okay, so that's Tower Records' tag. But who cares, it's the truth.
The rap ... crap thread just really got interesting so why not take it a step further?
Anything goes tayo sa music dito.

Okay, sa opening salvo?
Do you guys and gals buy pirated compact discs? or even vcds or dvds?

Me, I don't. I buy original even if its expensive. I'll tell you why later. Let's hear from everyone first.



[ March 10, 2004: Message edited by: Bleachers King ]

Howdy BK. I buy original CDs for copyright reasons. I work in an intellectual property-intensive business, so I believe I should support anyone out there who stands to get his work pirated.

Also, original CDs just sound better. I can appreciate your obsession for finding US or Japanese pressings of certain records, because the quality's miles different. MP3 digital compression is convenient, but it just doesn't come close in terms of sound.

Having said all that, let me just add that, as someone who is actually stupid enough to pay for his music in the age of Napster, the other side of the coin for me is that I believe I can use my CD collection in any way I want, including making compilations for personal use and for my friends' enjoyment. I make compilations because I want good songs on one disc, but each commercially available CD has only three good songs in it, max. (and you're lucky if you can find four and over). Know any CDs with more than four good tracks? Let me know. I'll add it to my (very short) list of such records.

By the way here's my latest compilation project. Just finished it Saturday and it sounds great. Plan to inflict it on you guys at the next 14 beers.

See ya.

songs for a winter monsoon, 2002

1. songbird - fleetwood mac
2. i never wanted - idlewild
3. i'm wrong about everything - john wesley harding
4. hard candy - counting crows
5. sugar boy - beth orton
6. dry the rain - the beta band
7. lose you - pete yorn
8. i am trying to break your heart - wilco
9. one more last kiss - ivy
10. desire - ryan adams
11. (are you) the one that i've been waiting for? - nick cave and the bad seeds
12. you do something to me - paul weller
13. let go - hank dogs
14. moonlight mile - the rolling stones
15. song to the siren - robert plant
16. northern sky - nick drake
17. songbird - eva cassidy

[ December 09, 2002: Message edited by: Upper Box ]

About 80% of my CD collection consists of "pirated" CDs. Many of these are indie -- ie mostly EPs and demos. Then most of the others are copies made from LPs I borrowed from my friends. I guess they're not really pirated though; uhh, they're just "backups" that I keep for them...

Anyway, nearly all of my computer software is definitely pirated or cracked. This is really more based on principle than anything else. I do pay for my Linux distros even though I don't have to, but with everything else... forget about it.

I own a few pirated CDs, but they're mostly compilations made by my friends. (Pirated ba yung ganon?) And like Bleachers King, I buy original CDs even if it kills my wallet. I go for quality - even rarity, if applicable I also own mp3's but they're mostly stuff I really cannot find here.

As for VCDs, I don't buy the pirated ones. They're not expensive nowadays, and the selections are getting better. I rarely buy DVDs (except when I really like the movie and there's no other format available). Mahal kasi eh.

[ December 09, 2002: Message edited by: trainspotter ]

trainspotter, whether compilations are an example of piracy depends on how you view the principle of "fair use," which is what the intellectual property argument in music is really all about.

I personally think it's fair use if I make compilations of songs which 1. I paid for and 2. that I don't intend to profit from. It's like I'm a librarian reorganizing my files, only I burn my favorite "files" (songs) onto one CD - one convenient package with only the music I want to hear. It saves me from going through the crap of loading and unloading discs from CD players.

I've never really bought a pirated music cd, but I do burn cds. If I can't get an original copy of something my friend has, I burn it off him. I just don't sell them or buy them. I always buy the original cd anyway, packaging and audio quality is just always better. Besides, CD's, for what they're worth, are cheap. It's got the music you want to hear in a medium that's quite durable (as long as you don't treat it like shit). I just think if you a buy a CD that you really like, the price is not incredibly important.

Don't buy VCD's, never have, never will. I just don't like the quality, even originals and good dvd rips seem crappy to me.

I buy a lot of DVD's, prices here pretty much don't fluctuate, unless the DVD is imported. And DVDs are just so much fun.

Me,I have a few pirated CDs, VCDs, a few original copies of music CDs and loads of compilations. I also agree with upper box, commercially available CDs contain only a few good tracks which makes me lament for buying such when with the cost of one original CD, I could already purchase a whole lot of blank CDs to burn on. And candidly, madali akong magsawa pagdating sa mga kanta. It would be really a big twinge on my pocket if I buy for an original CD just for a song or two na bukas na bukas, hindi ko na gusto!

But on the contrary, nothing beats the original ones in terms of quality.

And of course, no music, no life!

hey guys! thanks for dropping by. hopefully, we'll have some real cool discussions over here. and when you consider that there are very few notes and that yet strangely there are near infinite number of songs out there, there's so much to like and dislike.

so on to our first point, being pirated discs.

When CDs first came out, they were rather expensive (P375) and so my CD collection first came together rather slowly. When pirated CDs started appearing, (those Lost & Found compilations), I thought they were a cheap way to get some stuff which were pretty much difficult to get here in the country. Those new wave songs (I grew up with but were really hard to find) that appeared on these compilations were like manna. But even so, I always felt like they stuck out like a sore thumb in my burgeoning collection. (Okay, I have just a few pirated CDs ha!) It's like having the Buggles' Trevor Horn singing lead vocals for Yes -- he doesn't cut it!!!

A few years ago, while researching material for an anti-music piracy advertising campaign, I came across some material provided by ifpi (lower case talaga ang acronym ng international music federation na to) that made me completely stop buying pirated CDs.

The report revealed that international crime organizations such as the Mafia and the Yakuza among others had realized the quick bucks they could make in funding an illegal Cd trade. And in turn, the monies made here would fund their traditional trade -- drugs, gun running, and prostitution. SIDEBAR, THE ADS WERE NOMINATED FOR BEST PUBLIC SERVICE TV COMMERCIALS. In fact, our very own muslim seccesionists are into this industry as well.

That being so, I told myself no more pirated CDs for me no matter how cheap or inviting some discs look.

Besides, the original pressings have liner notes and info (yes, I do read them), photos, much better sound recordings and look neat. And I guess, the artists have to earn from their work, right?

Pirated CDs on the other hand, skip after so many playings, don't have liner notes, have all these typos on the sleeve and are poorly reproduced.

It's also great to see that the recording companies (local and foreign) have responded to the piracy problem by lowering prices and providing more value buys for the music fan.
And those bonus audio discs and video CDs as well as the enhanced discs make buying originals even more worth it.

Upperbox,
cool choice of music for a compilation. i'm glad you included ivy's one more last kiss. they do the pet shop boys real proud.


And guys, burning CDs isn't piracy as long as they aren't done for profit. like Upperbox, I just choose my favorite songs and burn them onto disc. it does save the trouble of pulling them all out then just playing a couple of songs.

as for me, when i pull out a disc to play, i listen to the whole album. and guess what, after not having heard certain albums for some time, they sound a whole lot better the next time around. like U2's Achtung Baby. sure it was radically different from the Unforgettable Fire. Sure it was more alive than the previous album, but it wasn't until about the fourth time I listened to it that I said to myself that this was pure genius! It's like reading Alan Moore's Watchmen, at the first read, you can't wait to get it over with (coz of its length) but upon the next read, you see all these details that you never noticed the first time around and you realize that what you just read will change comic books forever.

i'm sure you get the point.

to end this post, sa sobrang OC ko, I keep all my CDs clean and in plastic. They're all filed according to music style and in alphabetical order. and they're all filed neatly.

hurm.

Interesting discussion indeed. Perhpas you guys would like to take a look at another similar thread in the Current Events Forum. It's always been about quality for me, not so much along the intellectual property line. I've bought a few CDs that I think might be pirated but I'm not absolutely sure. Bought them at a couple of places in Greenhills as well as at the Kowloon District of HK. They don't skip or anything but they just don't look like originals. In fact they mostly have Japanese or Cantonese labels, i.e. Go West, Pet Shop Boys and PM Dawn.

In any event, some of the arguments I've heard center mainly around the IPR line, and I think when it comes to that we have to define for ourselves what exactly we term as "intellectual property", and as I've always asked, can we totally divorce the quality of music, or the art of music (or music as an art) from music as intellectual property. Ako kasi parang ang hirap ihiwalay ang legal na usapan mula sa kathang likha na usapan. For instance, there are quite a few so-called musical artists I wouldn't mind seeing disappear through piracy, even at the expense of the artists I like listening to. I know it sounds a bit like an extreme "survival of the fittest" kind of twisted logic, but then that's just me. I've spent real good money for tickets to see acts like Spandau Ballet, U2, Placido Domingo, Michael Jackson, Sarah Brightman, The Dawn, Indentity Crisis, Basil Valdez, Martin Nievera in venues like our PICC, Folk Arts, ULTRA, The old Forum in Inglewood CA, Madison Square Garden in NY and even Manchester and HK.

I've spent good money on some original CDs as well. But the only reason I do so is really just the quality. Totally wala akong tiwala sa mga bangketa CDs kaya hindi ako bumibili. Ang ikinababanas ko lang kasi, why the heck is it nagkaroon na ng biglaang pagbaba ng presyo sa mga orig ngayon kung kelan lang lumaganap ang piracy? Puwede naman palang as low as P150-P280 may orig ka na, so why were the music producers originally foisting it on us for twice to thrice that much to begin with? Sa mga nabili kong tig-P150 at P280 na CD hindi pa naman ako napapahiya, so obviously can afford naman palang presyohan ng mas mura. Ang iniisip ko lang tuloy, ano ito, lokohan?

BK, Upper Box, enlighten me without going LA Law on me on this one. Best thing you can do for me, tell me where I can get cheap original CDs. Peace Homeys!

...get 'em used.

Woohoo! Congrats to BK for finally starting this thread. I was going to begin a "music love" thread but we can cover that here after the orig vs. pirated CD discussion.

My P 0.02:

I buy original CDs because (heh...contrary to what was stated on the "rap...crap" thread ) the groups I like aren't popular enough to pirate. I admit that I have snapped up pirated EVE6 and Foo Fighters CDs in the past, but most of my collection are original. And I still buy tapes.

When I do buy pirateds, it's usually of groups that I feel can afford to pass up my contribution to their care and feeding, e.g., Korn, Limp Bizkit and *coughNSYNCcough* As for pirated VCDs, I think I only have just one pirated VCD in my possession and the quality sucks.

I have just been faced with the cheerful prospect of more work, so I think I will come back to this thread when I am in a better mood. God, I need sleep.

For music, I buy pirated CDs to sample an album. I usually go for the pirated albums so I get to hear all the tracks. I know that some has poor quality but I just buy them to decide if it's worth the 450++ that I'm gonna use. CDs are just too expensive these days. I wonder when will the big money-making record companies lower their prices.

For movies, I don't buy pirated ones. The quality is just so god awful! I can't appreciate it especially if you hear people laughing in the movie or see a shadow walking. Usually, if I like a film and want to add it to my collection, I'll wait until it depreciates. Usually, a movie will go until 150 and I think that's a good buy already.

For softwares, I buy pirated installers. It's cheap and widely available. And it gets a little annoying that once you buy an original one, the company will release a new version and you have to buy that again? Er, I just stick with pirated ones or just borrowing from friends. :-)

My big non-technical example for piracy is professors photocopying textbooks for student use. Third-world country, books are expensive, people need to learn. Is photocopying fair use? This was a big issue in school during my time. Authors and publishers say no, you can't do that, our sales will suffer. Professors and students say, bugger off, your made-in-the-USA books are just too expensive. Sometimes if a textbook is popular enough, licensed third parties like National Bookstore issue cheap reprints. But otherwise, people do what they want. The issue remains largely unresolved. And in the Philippines it's the Wild West out there, there's no real enforcement anyway.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 5FootCarrot:
[B]Woohoo! Congrats to BK for finally starting this thread. I was going to begin a "music love" thread but we can cover that here after the orig vs. pirated CD discussion.

Hey 5FootCarrot! thanks for the kind words. music is as much as passion as basketball is for me. and yes, there's so much we can discuss here. am all for the "music love" topic after this piracy issue.

Joescoundrel,
i totally agree with you, dude. quality. ain't no substitute for it.

and having worked for an international/multinational recording company, i know the ins and outs as well as the pricing of discs.

the prices of CDs here in manila are perhaps the cheapest you'll find anywhere in this world. but take note, those are for the imports, local pressings on the other hand are somethig else.

what makes a CD priced at P450 is due to many factors: the price in which its bought from the parent company, the taxes and cost it takes to bring them in (all imports pass through Hong Kong before coming in), the cost it takes to pay the promo girls, the stores ... well you get the picture. Let me tell you that minsan, hindi malaki ang tubo ng recording companies. maliit lang, binabawi sa quantity. it is far cheaper for them to secure licensing deals (meaning they're manufactured here). US priced discs average around 15 dollars (but i know they've brought it down somewhat) and when they're purchased by the bulk, companies pay anywhere from $2.50 to $8 per disc.

locally pressed discs on the other hand, cost about P50-60 bucks to produce so you can imagine yung kita nila. but that's the nature of the business, you gotta make money to keep afloat. and this additional profit goes back in many forms, royalties, promos, etc. just be glad that there are a lot more mid-priced discs out in the stores today!

i'll tell you a trade secret. there are few local companies whose discs are actually imported. many foreign companies require local subsids to order a minimum number of copies before they can reproduce them locally. so if you're import conscious, you might want to snap the imports before they disappear off the shelves. some examples, coldplay's parachutes, oasis' familiar to millions, sting's fields of gold, and china crisis' acoustically live.

so how can you tell, you ask?

1) read the fine print. normally, naka-indicate where the discs are pressed.

2) check out the sleeves from the jewel box. if they seem to be printed without creases, chances are they're imported. local printing leaves much to be desired.

3) in certain shops like Music 1, you can have the discs checked at the listening stations. sometimes, nakalagay printed in the philippines but it only refers to the sleeves while the discs are imports. you see, when discs are shipped, the parts are all sent separately. the discs in one box, the sleeves in another, at times, the jewel cases in another. but to save on cost, their packed here. kini-kilo kasi mga yan sa customs where you have a lot of unscrupulous bastards (they should all be lined up and shot, tortured and shot again!).

so there! whew. being a discriminating music fan can be daunting!

for cheap buys, try recto and quiapo. no, i'm saying you venture into the den of pirates, but it the bargain shops all over. you'll find a lot of excellent titles (smuggled out from warehouses) at baragin prices! i got an enya boxed set for P600 bucks there (that's three discs).

well, there's also going around the various CD specialty shops all over the metro. not all stores carry the same titles.

hmm. brand conscious? import conscious? or OC lang? its a little of everything. but who cares! it's my money! and besides, who wants to listen to the muzak that crowds the airwaves.

Word to that. Back in 2000 I was thinking of buying the Road Trip soundtrack but passed that up because it cost about US$17.99 (at P40:US$1...go figure ) -- wala pang tax yon. It took a few months' wait before I finally found it on sale here but I saved about half of what I would have spent had my EQ not been so high :cool:

My sisters used to buy those compilations (Love Train and the like) and compilations. I thought that they were more practical than me, because my preference is for original CDs and cassette tapes It’s not until our CD player suddenly broke down due to playing those substandard CDs one day that we all agreed not to buy pirated CDs anymore. Also, I buy the real thing for it’s quality and the sake of collecting. I agree with 5FootCarrot that the selection of pirated CDs sold in your friendly neighborhood bangketa isn’t that wide. Some of their titles are really funny, like Korn(y) vs. Limp (Show)Bizkitz and Slapshock vs. Eraserheads vs. Parokya ni Edgar. Tinanong ko bigla sa tindera kung recording ito ng away banda…

I used to borrow from a friend, recorded tapes of hardcore bands like Agnostic Front, Biohazard (before they were released locally), Sick of it All, Earth Crisis, and Minor Threat. I think Victory Records recently set up a distribution office here in the Philippines. Good news for hardcore music fanatics.

Original CDs last longer than the illegally sold ones. Puls they don’t damage your CD player. Trust me, my sisters and I had to experience this painful fact.

CD production is very sensitive. They're manufactured under controlled conditions as even a single dust speck can ruin a disc when undergoing printing. there are a lot of CD-Rs that are manufactured cheaply and these are used by music pirates so you can imagine their shelf life. after a playing or two, they skip; for vcds/dvds, they pixelize. and repeated playing not only further damage the disc but also your player's laser lens.

in order to bring in more fans, local companies should adopt what they do in the america where they slash the prices after an album has been out for several years. i know that here in the philippines, we're already seeing introductory prices for new CDs such as Oasis' Heathen Chemistry (first batch of CDs were imported) which sold for P385 if i'm not mistaken.

compilations are a good way to learn about new artists. however, a lot of them tend to suck. so what i would advise you to do is to check out several reviews on the net or even ask around (there are some people who work in the specialty shops who're real audiophiles) if a title is any good.

it's a shame that the relative expensiveness of CDs make the purchase of original CDs among the lower classes an extreme luxury.

remember when Flounder, Stephen Furst's character in Animal House, said to a bummed Boon and Stratton, "Women, love them, hate them, can't live without them?"

well he was right. but you can pretty musch say the same thing about music. No music, no life.

back in school, i would always study with some music inthe background (but not too loud). and in fact, i still fall asleep with the radio on (city lite or nu107 only).

even while working nowadays, i always bring with me some discs to get me in the mood.

as it is, its kind of a rotten day for me. have been on a sound trip all day to fend off mellon collie and the infinite sadness:
* Greetings from Asbury Park - Bruce Springsteen
* Damn the Torpedoes - Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
* Fundamental - Puya
* Resistance -Big Mountain

darn. blue days.




[ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: Bleachers King ]

I Agree!! Listening to the whole cd is good, sometimes good material you overlooked previously suddenly becomes visible again.

hindi ako bumibili ng pirated na music cd.. pero nagdDL ako at binuburn ko..

yung mga foreign artists ang pinapirate ko.. except yung mga gusto ko talaga na bands..

ang orig na cd na binibili ko yung mga bands sa pilipinas..

sup ppl!


that used to be PULP's tag but i think i like their new one better:


NO MUSIC? BITE ME!


nyahahah... peace out!


nd 2 all pulpers out der: game on! (wayne & garth)

Hey Ho 5Foot Carrot!
I think we said pretty much what we want about the piracy issue. Now what about the "music love" point you wanted to make? Let's hear it, girl. And dugtong mo na rito.

Hm. Not quite sure exactly what I wanted to say. I just figured that, instead of bashing on music that we don't like (not that there was any real bashing going on in the "rap...crap?" thread) and getting into arguments, we could just discuss why we like the music we do like and instead elicit agreement -- or at least let people who don't dig it see why we do. Capisce?

I might have to think about my post on the matter for a while, so anyone willing to come forward and appreciate a genre or a band in particular is welcome to do so (For Beatles love in particular, we have a whole thread on the subject already!)

I have a wooden box full of CDs which I've labeled "musical influences." They contain CD copies of every record or tape I ever listened to between the ages of 14 and 21.

The idea behind calling it "musical influences" is that one day when I become really famous, when future biographers start digging up stuff about me, I will have all the music in one box for them to peruse. One-stop-shop musical-influence biography. In a neatly organized birch wood box.

So they'll probably conclude my manic nature comes from listening to the Kinks and the Clash, or my moodiness comes from listening to Nick Drake, or my sometimes unintelligible mumblings come from listening to too much friggin' Stevie Nicks. Does anyone really understand what she's saying? I challenge anyone here to tell me the words to "Rhiannon" without looking at a lyric sheet.

Anyway, boxes of CDs are what I do in those moments when I'm particularly deluded about the extent of my future fame. I'm just wondering if anyone on this thread has had a similar idea... we could form a club!

Makikisingit lang...

Fleetwood Mac fan right here!!
All I ever understood from Rhiannon was, "...will you ever win..."

Hey, cool, Kaiser. A fellow Fleetwood Mac fan. Death to the Corrs for their lame cover of "Dreams"! Altho the Cranberries did a decent "Go Your Own Way," I have to say. Something about Dolores O'Riordan and her Irish wail made it work.

The album "Rumours," put together when the couples in the band were breaking up, has also been called "Musicians on the verge of a nervous breakdown" and is a particular favorite source of tracks for compilations.

I presume you have the latest Greatest Hits double disc. I listened to "Never Going Back Again" for the first time in 20 years a few nights ago and the intro all came back to me as if it was yesterday. That band is implanted in my DNA almost.

Stevie Nicks, Yeah! I once had her solo album. Too bad I lost it transferring from different houses. She was cool.

Other female vocalists I like include, Nina Simone (the greatest!), the Indigo Girls (although the other half, Amy Ray is too radical and country for my taste).

Lately, Norah Jones and India Arie are on my playlist.

The Corrs deserve to be shot for their version of "Dreams". I didn't particularly enjoy listening to it. What do you think of the Smashing Pumpkins' version of "Landslide"? I thought Billy Corgan did a pretty good job with that one.

I don't have the latest double disc greatest hits CD (I haven't bought it yet coz I'm hoping someone would give it to me for Xmas hehehe). But I do have the greatest hits CD with the green cover.

I got hooked into Fleetwood Mac early coz, as a kid, I remember my parents kept playing Fleetwood songs at home.

Yup, "Landslide" by the Pumpkins is pretty good.

Favorite underrated Fleetwood Mac songs: "Think About Me" and "You Make Loving Fun"

Are you also into the Peter Green-era Fleetwood Mac? That's pretty old-school. From their British-blues period.

Hmm, I'm not too familiar with the Peter Green era of Fleetwood Mac. All I know is that he was one of the co-founders of the band.

Hey Upper Box!

A hearty ne ne na na nu nu to you!

Snuck out of the office for a bit to buy a few groceries in nearby landmark only to get into this huge verbal sparring session with this piece of white trash. I swear Limp Bizkit's "Break Stuff" was playing in the corners of my mind. Okay, enough of the Holden Caulfield moments here.

Fleetwood Mac. Yeah, have been a fan since Bob Welch was on board. I did get their double disc and like you, it brought me back to the days when Rod Stewart was kicking soccer balls to his audience and Elton John laid claim to being the original crocodile dundee with his "Crocodile Rock."

Trivia time. Did you know that our very ow Joey "Pepe" Smith gave Mick Fleetwood his limp? According to the ageless Teacher's Enemy No. 1, he and the Mickster were drinking one night somewheres way way back when in a moment of extreme drunkeness, he accidentally sent the poor Limey sprawling when he shoved him. Poor Mick wasn't abe to play drums for a bit and so Joey offered his services to Mick's band (they politely declined lest they all meet the same fate). Bwa ha ha

Musical influences.

Kiss. Hearing "Detroit Rock City" liberated me from the James Taylors of this world. Am not saying that JT sucks, it's just that Kiss made me realize that there was more to saturday morning cartoons and M.O.R. music.

Led Zepellin. "Achilles' Last Stand" A song of epic proportions (well over 10 mintues). John Bonham's thunderous drumming pounded my head into submission. In the end, I had enough of the Eagles and SoCal wimp rock.

the Clash. "Train In Vain" opened the door for Brit rock for me. Long hair went out of the window with this one.

Asia. "Heat of the Moment" None of this ridiculous cheerleading crap from Toni Basil for me.

Jonathan Richman and the Modern Lovers "Roadrunner" Woo hoo! Quirky. Way cool! A song to learn and sing! The theme song of my High School Air Police batch.

the Style Council "My Ever Changing Moods" opened the door for an appreciation for Billie Holliday, Frank Sinatra, Miles Davis.

Prefab Sprout' Two Wheels Good/Steve McQueen. Who needs Joe D'mango when Paddy McAloon says all there is about love, falling in love, and falling out of love.

the Smiths - Hatful of Hollow
R.E.M. - Murmur
a pox on new wave. kick down the doors. no more one-hit wonders for me.

Sting "If You Love Somebody Set Them Free" subtle jazz flirtations by the Blue Turtles expanded further my musical horizons.

Burce Hornsby and the Range "The Way It Is" simmer down, young man, simmer down.

Stone Temple Pilots "Big Empty"
Nirvana "Lithium"
take a walk on the wild side. angst suddenly found a place in my lexicon.

Oasis "Roll With It" I'm king of the world! As I achieved success professionally.

Club 8. "Blue Skies" Love is all I need.

the Eraserheads "Pare Ko" suddenly, it's cool to like Pinoy.

Barbie's Cradle "Healing" re-discovering Joni Mitchell, JT, Tori Amos, Enya and Patti Smith

A Perfect Circle "Judith" I'm back in black.

These songs/albums are what I consider "agents of change" in my life. well, there are more but these really are the ones that stick.

Fleetwood Mac and James Taylor? Man, I have to introduce you guys to my parents My mom has a FM tape lying around somewhere so I guess I'd better give it a listen so I can say I've heard more than just "Sweet Little Lies" (if I have the title of the song correct).

BK, for fight songs with more quality than "Break Stuff," I recommend Cypress Hill's "Can't Get the Best of Me" and Quarashi's "Stick 'Em Up." But my suggestions could be tainted by the fact that the music videos for these songs involve big men brawling. Hee

Well, you were going to bring your parents to the November session.

People on this thread are cross-generational, so hilarious mismatches of musical taste are bound to happen. (Altho Kaiser seems a bit on the young side for a Fleetwood Mac fan). It's like that Doonesbury cartoon where Mike plays "Satisfaction" by the Rolling Stones for his kid brother and is dancing wildly to the music. Kid brother just sits there looking bored, and asks, "What, are we in an elevator or something?"

UB, I guess you won't be surprised if I told you that I have the latest double-disc CD from The Rolling Stones. Of course, I've aways been a fan of The Eagles, The Doors and The Beatles since high school.

Carrot,
You really should listen to FM, they're great!! My favorite FM songs are "Rhiannon", "Everywhere", and "Gypsy".

Yup, I have Forty Licks by the Stones. It even came with a promotional Rolling Stones tote bag, which will come in handy next time I buy my groceries.

I broke one of the discs tho. The case is sticky - when I pulled out the disc I had to flex the CD to pry it loose, and it cracked. First time I ever broke a CD, man. Feel unfathomably sad when I think about it

I remember spinning for a party for some friends at CSA (way back in high school) and it was past midnight when things began to slow down. as there was no chill out music back then, i plopped onto the player some reggae and ska tunes. as the vibe got people high-tailing it back to the dancefloor, a few woodrose girls dropped by the dj's booth to tell me that "the mexican" music i was playing was pretty cool and asked if there was any tequila in the house.
and a conga line formed ...
bwa ha ha

talk about a tangled mass my brain is right now. has the spirit of the season hit you guys?

haven't even begun to christmas shop. as i got dressed for work, was listening to cecilia bartoli's the vivaldi album. then one the way to the office it was the house and garage music of caffeine 2. while pounding away all afternoon on the keyboard, it was to the manic upper of an album that is death to the pixies. damn. i could have been mr. john murphy.
am home now, and its clannad. i swear it must be swiss mocha i've been having at kafecionado the last two days.

"...dedicated to the excitable ones..." -- 311, "Tribute"

This is a 311 Appreciation Post.

"Omaha Stylee, did not think there was one
Where the radio is weak but the shows are more fun
Kickin' the dancehall scene since '88,
Many do not think when they hear [that] we come from this state... -- 311, "Omaha Stylee"

311 is a 5-person rap-rock-reggae group originating from Omaha, Nebraska. They have performed with the likes of Incubus, No Doubt and Korn. They were heavily influenced by the likes of Bob Marley, the Beastie Boys, and the Bad Brains, to name a few.

"...mixed with dancehall and
Hiphop beats and funk guitar and
Deadly on the mic is the one SA
The name is 311 and you know it ain't easy..." -- 311, "Come Original"

311 may sound like a sonic mishmash based on that description, but to my thinking at least, they weave it together so well that their sound is by turns angry, mellow, thoughtful or happy. I always have to have a personal anthem, and 311 has a song for whatever mood I happen to be in.

Sometimes I need "FTBS," "Wake Your Mind Up" or "You Get Worked" to get pumped up ("Hive" and a chocolate granita once got me into an argument with my Philo teacher ); "8:16 AM," "My Stoney Baby" or "Stealing Happy Hours" to relax; and "Can't Fade Me," "Starshines" or "Do You Right" to cheer myself up.

"I can't handle all the negative vibe merchants
Is that all you have in you, perchance?" -- 311, "Misdirected Hostility"

I have yet to hear another rock song that employs the word "bludgeon" in it. (I can't recall which song it is right now, but it's in the lyric booklet ) I am a lover of words, so the stranger and more obscure the words and allusions are, the happier I am. (Case in point: I think the Beastie Boys are cool because they alluded to Chateaunneuf de Pape in "Body Movin'.")

And while many people dismiss 311 as lightweights because they prefer being positive to being hostile, that's precisely why I like them. I'd rather listen to 311 singing about thinking for oneself, respecting other people's views and loving life than to Eminem ranting about blowing his mother, wife and all their relatives away.

"F%^k the naysayers 'cause they don't mean a thing
This is the style we bring..." -- 311, "All Mixed Up"

Other people may think they suck, but as far as I'm concerned, the important thing is that I don't. So there.

Just as an aside: People think the name stands for Ku Klux Klan (K=11th letter of the alphabet; therefore 3x11=KKK), but the name really originated from the police code for indecent exposure

i want my MTV!

well, at one point everyone wanted their daily dose and they got it.

my intro to MTV was via Nina Blackwood (whatever happened to her anyway?). it was a cool time to catch music videos in their infancy, graduating from the worn-out concert excerpts or lip synching to canned applause.

of course, back then, we didn't have MTV, we got them via videotapes. betamax tapes to be specific from EN Aguila.

later on, 99.5 RT put up their own show, Rhythm of the City which played MTVs without permission so they were soon yanked off the air. but man, just to catch Tears For Fears' "Change," Billy Idol's "White Wedding," and U2's "New Year's Day" ...

anyway, MTV isn't what it once was. no longer syndicated, they're tailor-fit to specific audiences/markets. okay, that may be cool (if cool for you means kc montero who probably went to the david duchovny school for deadpan acting) but to drown in a sea of boybands, r&b outfits that all sound and look alike, and korn wannabees. jeez.

MTV says that the stuff shown is what the audiences want to see. well, count me out coz I want my Channel V which is more diverse. MTV seems to be conservative in its programming that the videos you see on a day-to-day basis is a predictable as RT's playlist.

so guys, does MTV suck?

You're aware of Bart's writing-on-the-blackboard routine during "The Simpsons" opening credits? One show during the 1990s he wrote, "I no longer want my MTV," which is probably the turning point.

Why does MTV suck? I don't have enough theories to explain why it might suck. So here's the short version: Corporate types running the show at Viacom would be my answer, if I were thinking with my head. But if I'm thinking with my heart -- it's because we're no longer young, my friend.

Sting is The Man! From the Dream of the Blue Turtles all the way to the era of Fields of Gold. My personal favorites include all of the "preachy" songs, timeless indeed. There's also the classic single "Englishman in New York" that proved the incredible versatility of classic jazz. And of course, his version of "Someone to Watch over Me", undoubtedly the most elegant rendition of a timelessly elegant song.

In the "Frank or Tony" debate, I'd have to go with Tony Bennet, perhaps the single most talented big time Standards singer of all time. Honorable mention to Andy Williams then Francis Albert Sinatra and Bobby Darin. I dunno what it is with that, but I use "Fly Me to the Moon" as the standard gauge of their overall rating for me as singers, and Tony Bennet's rendition is still the best. Of course, "Moon River" is exclusively Andy Williams country. And Frank's best song for me is still "I've Got You Under My Skin". Of course I'd never get over Bobby D's "Mac The Knife".

Forgive this relic of the Netherworld known as the 1980's, but I STILL LOVE New Wave! The more popular New Wave songs even more. More To Lose, Melt With You, Two Rivers, Enola Gay, Whirlpool Heart, I Met Her In Paris, Thinking Of You, Ghost In You, In Between Days, First Picture Of You, Wishful Thinking, Give A Little Respect, Question Of Lust, With Or Without You, and all that merry lot.

I miss the early MTV years when i always got to see VJs Nonie and Danny McGill. I also miss shows such as Headbanger's Ball, Alternative Nation, 120 Minutes, Unplugged. Those were the good years. Right now, I hardly watch any MTV at all coz UNTV is more to my liking.

[ December 13, 2002: Message edited by: Kaiser8 ]

BK and UB,
Cheer up dudes! MTV still has its uses. When any of the Pop Princess bimbos are on, just go on mute and enjoy the view, har-har-har.

But seriously, MTV has turned into one long and totally boring Fan Club. There's hardly any real music being played. It's all about feeding the frenzied desire of the 15-25 demographic, and thus turning a nice tidy profit off these mobs. It's kinda like the gladiator days of Ancient Rome, the rabble was given what it wants, bread and bloody circuses. Except this time, the bread flows from the rabble to the circus masters.

Word to that. I liked how we used to get the MTV Europe and US charts besides the Asian ones -- there was definitely more of a selection then. I also didn't mind seeing the Indian pop stars get to strut their stuff. Today, it's all white bread pop and generic rap/R&B. As for the piddling offerings they have for alternative/rock fans, MTV shows them when I am at the office or already asleep.

I, too, infinitely prefer UNTV now. (I commute past their office every day! )

Upper Box,
you got me thinking there, dude. hmm. while we may no longer be at that rumbunctious age, i think the fact that we enjoy some of the new stuff that comes out means that we can certainly appreciate good music (e.g. john mayer).
i think MTV's problem is the lack of variety. i'm not saying that they should junk all this boy band crap (although i'd be ecstatic), but they should be able to reach as many markets as possible.
and if they were really a "music" TV channel, then why are they limited to pop-rock? if those early Tool videos are still edgy to them, then i seriously wonder what they've been smoking. sure those Tool videos are edgy but they've been out for years, there are even newer ones that will change the face of video or film making in the manner that spike lee's mike jordan TVCs for nike changed consumer advertising forever.

in fact, MYX has so far presented the best sampling of music from chill out to ambient to dance to indie pop/rock to mainstream. if oldhands U2 and red hot chili peppers can still make artist of the month, then i'd say that the taste buds of old warhorses like you and me are in tune (even if a little bit)
with MTV's market.

I WANT MY VH1!

Man, if they can play u2, then they can play the Pogues, Cactus World News, the Alarm, World Party and the Waterboys.

Anyone ever like those Police-sound-alikes, the Lambrettas? They were a cool band, huh?

this seems like a very intelligent thread. im a huge music fan myself and i made the best decision of my life when i got a 10GB iPOD for xmas. its so cool how i can jump from zero 7 to sam cooke to justin timberlake (sorry im a girl and i think he's hot!) to celia cruz to royskopp all in one go!!

welcome aboard, smittenkitten!

so what do you think about this "does MTV suck?" thread within a thread?

If I were to make a guess at MTV's broad strategy, it's 1. to set a style agenda for emerging young consumers and 2. to use this influence over the youth as bargaining power with record companies and advertisers.

It ain't really about the music, BK, although if a programmer gets to show you something you actually want to see, then it's strictly a bonus. It's all about what they think they can sell to the youth market. Music is just a means to an end.

Problem with this plan is, the markets in Asia are more fragmented than Viacom ever imagined. The viewers don't even speak the same language. So they have to build up separate programming for the Bahasa speakers and the Putonghua speakers and the Cantonese speakers and the Hindi speakers, and so on down the line.

Within the tiny sliver of English speakers in East Asia they also have to figure out how to please the Hong Kong, Filipino, Malaysian, and Singaporean markets. I seriously doubt a Singaporean will ever be able to relate to the Eraserheads, and vice versa - whatever the hell Singapore's version of the Eraserheads might be. And please, let's not even speculate about how such a band might sound, lah.

Somewhere floating serenely above this chaotic mess are the Japanese, whose tastes no one really understands, except for the people who really run their consumer industry - the stylish hordes of teenage girls in the too-skimpy schoolgirl outfits. But let's not even get into that.

Note that these markets also share roughly the same time zone, so it's a programmer's nightmare getting all that content to fit. The need for varied and yet specifically targetted programming has led them to the expensive solution of one channel per market, and that's stretching their costs, I'm guessing, so they probably won't have the resources to deliver everything the various markets want.

So MTV in Asia is at best a compromise, a programmer's best guess at what you want, limited by what he can put on the air in any given time slot. I totally understand why the smaller, more specialized music video channels are better at delivering stuff Kaiser or Carrot want to see, because their markets are more focused and ultimately easier to get a handle on.

[ December 14, 2002: Message edited by: Upper Box ]