Federal republic works for the US, social capitalism for the western Europe. With all the problems that the Philippine society is experiencing, what do you think is the best form of government for the country?

Thanatocracy.


(Wouldn't it be cool to be a Lich? With an impregnable phylactery, of course.)

I was borne and raised in Manila, Philippines (B.F. Homes, Paranaque to be exact) and I am lucky enough to be residing in San Francisco, U.S.A. now and forever. I remember having left the country when I was 14 while the whole country was a big mess of corruption, debauchery, deceit and enraged yet stubborn citizens. And from all the news I've been hearing, especially after having former president Estrada put in the hotseat, the Philippines has gone absolutely array! I've had some short-lived optimism as soon as Pres. Makapagal took over, but soon after, she too was a little overwhelmed of the job. Right now the Philippines seemed all too hopeless.

Therefore, (and I also have my brother to vouch for me on this one ) I truly believe that communism would best fit the Philippines as of today. This will definitely straighten out the public, eliminate a fraction of poverty and keep the corruption at bay. Of course, none of this is possible unless there is a politician out there who truly loves the country and considers what's best for it and its citizens.

Communism is passe and I do not think that it will work for a country which is used to liberalized democracy such as the Philippines. If we will become a communist nation, we will undoubtedly be like Cuba and North Korea which became the modern pariahs of the global order.

I don't know anything about politics but this is what I want... I want the Philippines to be under the U.S. Government. All the laws here will take effect there. Same punishment, transportation, zoning and such.

You're absolutely right. I didn't think of that when I posted what I said. Oops...

But with a good president in charge there is also a chance that we might end up to the likes of China who is in a very progressive, stable situation under communism. That is what I had in mind. Not all communist countries are doomed. For some it works. But also considering that the people in the Philippines are stubborn and want to have actors for presidents, I think a strict government, at least, is what's best. For the mean time, that is, until after our nation rises up from all its problems and start a new with a democratic government perhaps.

PS - There is nothing so passe in politics...

I might sound really selfish at this point, but I don't believe that having the U.S.A. run the Philippines is any better of a step for the country.

I think that if Americans took over, that will drain our country enough of more culture. It's bad enough that the Philippines is so damned westernized and glamorize the whole American subculture. It's sickening what has become of Filipinos especially in the youth subculture. Everything American or imported has no questionable quality! What in the dickens is up with that! It's so irritating! :mad:

I used to be so proud of the Philippines when I was younger having learned of our culture, our trade, the food, our bayanis and everything Filipino.

But as I grew up and realized more of how most of this culture has not been acknowledged my pride has waned to mere transparency. Everything is American! Everything!: Music, clothing, food, technology, so on and so forth! And the sickening thing is the people are actually embracing this American takeover! Why can't us Filipinos actually love what we have! Grrrr! :mad:

I was referring to the law not culture. If there's anyone to blame for that it's the society that we live in. Nasapagpapalaki lang yan. It's a family affair as far as culture is concerned. All I want is how oderly things are a round here and I want that for the Philippines, that's all I'm saying.

When Americans take over, there is no doubt about it that everything else about what has been taken over is in for a drastic change. Yes, it's only the law that you're emphasizing but considering that the Americans should take over, they are bound to change more than just the government, obviously.

Tama ka, and kultura ay natututunan sa pagpapalaki. Pero, you cannot deny that culture is also taught outside that household and sometimes could influence one more so than on how you were raised.

Kaya nga Thanatocracy na lang. We'd all be better off as undead hordes. That way we won't need to eat, and all of our natural resources will be infected with blight, so nobody's gonna want it. The undead have no personality, so culture is moot, and violence is nil, since we can't kill each other. We'd all exist in putrid peace. And oh, you can forget about tourism - except for Goths.

[ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: Dearth ]

People like you could and should not be taken seriously.

You want to play gloomy with me? You ain't got nothing, kid.

it's called "humor," and it would be best taken with a grain of salt. (or in your case, maybe a barrel.)

~~~

i think the problem isn't so much the form of government, but rather the political will to make that government work, especially in national government.

i was in Bulacan yesterday to do site and documents validation for the Governor of Bulacan. she's being nominated as one of the most outstanding governors in the Philippines, and when you go there, it's not hard to see why. so many improvements taking place, and so many clearly organized programs that are actually working. not to mention the fact that their MIS in the governor's office building is better than that of the DOST, and within the next fiscal year they'll be extending that technology out to the municipalities.

a democratic government is fine. there are many pockets in the country wherein our democracy is really taking shape and is really working for the benefit of the people. the problem really lies in national government. yung area lang na iyon ang alanganin parati, because that's where all the politicking goes on.

It's called cynicism, raggster, take it as it is! If you don't have the guts to swallow it whole, buzz off!

"Ken vs. Chun Li"
"Round 1... Fight!"

"Hadouuuuken!"
"Spinning Top Kiiick!"
"Shoryuken!"
"Aaaaaaah ~~~~ Kikoshou!"
"Shinryuuuuuuken!"

Ah...ah...hawakan mo sa tenga, o......

Political will should also be considered to make a particular government work. But the form of government should be a primordial consideration to make a national government work. Fidel Castro or Kim Jong Il also have the political will however their form of government has no support from the majority of the civilized world.

Political will is a cute pol-sci term meaning being able to do something unpopular. We'll just have to live with that difficulty in a relatively free society such as ours.

Fidel Castro and Kim Jong Il have it easy. Dissension isn't allowed in their societies. =P Actually we shouldn't be too surprised that there are a lot of crap bureaucracies in the world today (the Philippines isn't special in its situation).

In many ways, the western powers don't necessarily support Good Governance. The Cold War dictated that they support non-communist governments. These days who do they support? Those that are so-called anti-terrorist? Though now some of their attention isn't so much in supporting non-terrorist governements as actually trying to overthrow 'terrorist' ones. . .

china seems to have some success with their brand of commu..., er, socia...., er... whatever form of NATIONALISTIC goverment they have.

maybe we can adopt something similar ...

any form of government naman is good basta you're one of the top men/women eh

pero seriously, what we really need is a CLEAN, SINCERE and HONEST government. kahit ano naman government natin basta may nangungurakot patay pa rin tayo. lalo na pagkomunismo, wala ng matitira sa atin. :confused:

huli ang bibig sa sariling isda!

little boy, don't blame americans, if ever they take over, for the loss of filipino 'culture'. blame yourself. your first post is quite diagnostic. and no, the philippines definitely does not need someone like you.

Originally posted by My grave...


Mr., China's form of government is not actually like the "real" communist nations (e.g. Cuba, North Korea).China has opened to the capitalist world in fact its entry to the WTO clearly formalized its step towards integrating with the rest of the capitalist nations.

Then, go bury your dream of a "Communist Philippines". Go consult the likes of Goh and Mahathir and be enlightened that a strict government is not always the same as communism.

There is, it's called communism.

It's not just the government... its the people.

Even if we have the finest government, it would not matter that much unless the people are disciplined enough... true that we have crappy leaders for the past years, but then again, we Filipinos voted for them... I guess what I am trying to say is that we should not only change our leaders... but ourselves as well.

IMHO lang po. Nevermind me.

i think a totalitarian form would do..... kasi we need more discipline... more like Marcos' days.

or maybe... federal kasi super iba-iba ang people in the philippines so magiging relative na ang laws nila. madaling ma-apply.

maybe you mean authoritarian. strictly speaking there have been only two totalitarian regimes (hitler's and stalin's). someone correct me if i'm wrong.

but back to authoritarian. yeah, we need more discipline. the chaos here is stifling. But I'd take freedom over discipline anyday...

yeah, authoritarian! got that confused with totalitarian! anyway, i think we need a leader that would use power the right way in an authoritarian way.

i don't think democracy can ever bring radical advancements in our country.

monarchy-parliamentary-authoritarian...

prince (1 lang from royal family)
-
Prime minister (1 lang din, elected from the royal court)
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Royal court (marami, basta dapat may royal blood)
-
ministers (by blood, ex. health, transpo, education)
-
duke (by blood, replacement ng governor)
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congress (by blood, replacement ng congressman)

IMO, this country has had democracy, and we obviously don't know how to use it. I think we should bring the Marcos days back. We need a dictator! Just not to the extreme, like before, but at the very least, a decent leader who knows how the hell to fix the bleeding country. Our economy was flourishing during Marcos' regime, right? (I wouldn't know, I wasn't born yet, really.)

Authoritarian. We've had enough of democracy. We've had it, we've tried and tested it, and it just doesn't work. Though some of us know how to use it, it's just not enough.

Forgive me, but I would just have to say that as a Marcos loyalist I seem to have the last laugh after all.

Seriously though, while it would be a big help if we had the same authoritarian rule like in the early 70s, I would not want it to last as long as it did the last time.

What the Philippines needs is discipline. And this needs to start from the top. Don't expect it to start from the people. The common Filipino has this "kung may gusot, may lusot" mentality which is very prevalent in the country. What is needed is a leadership that will not allow any avenues of "lusot".
Another thing that the Filipinos need is to educate themselves, to learn that what is fed them in the media is not necessarily the WHOLE truth. They have to learn to dig deeper to discern which is true and not true. If they are only going to rely on others for their ideas then the people will be so easily manipulated as they have been since the time of the spaniards.

[ October 25, 2002: Message edited by: Colnago ]

Amen to that Colnago! I absolutely concur.

[ October 25, 2002: Message edited by: Julian Fenris de Luna ]

You know guys, you shoud leave it to the expert because i am a political science major. i believe that the form of government that will work for me is the presidential form of government which has a 2 party system which is practicing liberalism. you know why? because our culture dictates that if we adapt the parliamentary form of government, there will be numerous vote of no confidence issued against the minister. while the presidential form of government needs constitutionalism which will be the source of process that will involve the removing of the leader like the impeachment. remember we resort to extra constituional means to oust a leader thats why there is a constitution which will be the primary goal of liberalism.communism will not work because there will not emerge a vanguard party that will head the country after the revolution.

Aren't most of Philippine laws already patterned after U.S. Laws?

Anywayz..

I think Ninoy is spinning in his grave right now.

the idea of Americans running our government really isn't palatable to me. In fact, it's downright repulsive. Para tayong Guam niyan. Playground of the Americans. Parang token-country and token-culture ba. Even the Hawaiians are fighting for independence.

Tsk, tsk. Ang Pinoy nga naman.

Monarchy.. imagine may crown si Gloria.. eww.

i don't think communism will work here. first of all, the filipino culture is allergic to anything tied with being dictated upon. you'll see that even the mention of the word "martial law" would have people shaking their heads and forming rallies. filipinos value their freedom too much. the idea of communism, everyone is equal will only work when we're all dead. next, the role assigned to a person is not necessarily suitable for him. a person's need is not necessarily the need of another. the only place communism will work is in heaven. when everyone serves and remains content and happy.
so i'd have to agree with ^karylle^ on this. imagine prince of quezon city or jv ejercito, duke of san juan... that should be interesting... :cool:

i'm sorry it's kayelle pala. my mistake...

Syempre, ngayong ko lang ito napansin, after more than 3 months.

cynicism would be: "We're hopeless." nothing in what Dearth said implies this.

besides, what's up with the superior attitude? as if ikaw lang yung may alam sa gobyerno dito.

~~~

after lurking the threads, here's what i can comment:

1. Discipline: looks like everyone agrees that we need this as a society. kudos.

but authoritarianism? too soon after the Martial Law experience. masyadong maraming aangal, to the point that its potential effectiveness will be undermined by the citizens' unwillingness to cooperate. the best we can do for now is to whip the police force into shape and give them incentives to better implement existing laws.

2. Crappy Leadership: another point many people agree upon. but as i've mentioned in another thread, and as was brought up here as well, governance isn't just about leaders, it's also about the constituents: us. if we refuse to cooperate, then we really won't get anywhere.

but yes, the current stock of leadership in government is pathetic at best. we need more technocrats and intelligent minds in high positions of government, not trapos out to make a buck at our expense.

3.No to Communism: off-hand, i'd say that a prerequisite of an effective Communist state is a developed industrial sector, particularly manufacturing, which is something we don't have. so even if Communism was an acceptable alternative, it isn't a viable one.

4. On Culture: i'm glad this has been a part of the discussion. not very many people understand how governance intrinsically ties into cultural quirks.

really, our culture is not really that suited towards democracy. we're highly regionalistic/ethnocentric, and do not readily identify with the concept of the "Filipino" (as opposed to the "Cebuano," "Bicolano," Davaueno," "Bisaya," "Tagalog," etc.). the thing is, we've known no other means by which to govern ourselves.

Federalism may look nice on the outside, but i feel that it presents more problems than solutions. for example, how are you going to divide the Phils into different states? by regions? by cultures? malabo pa rin. also, how are we to reconcile a national Constitution, based on a predominantly Christian perspective, to Muslim laws in the South, that will be most likely adopted given a federal system? :confused:

the current trend, started 10 years ago, is to decentralize government operations down to the local government levels, going as far down as the barangay. it's slow, but we're getting results. hopefully, we can see more tangible, positive outcomes within the next few years, since national government is aggressively advocating decentralization on the LGU level.

5. Parliamentary: Duke JV Ejercito? hehehe!.

6. 2-Party System: will not work. cultural quirk of regionalism and ethnocentricity all too easily undermines this strategy. besides, in the past 2 years alone, we've seen so many Senators and Congressmen jump from ship to ship. who's to say that this won't happen in a 2-party system?

7. Education: an absolute must.

diyos mio, ang haba na. sige, stop na me.

mas ok ang parliamentary take a glance on rich country almost of them are under parliamentary system except for US....and also the neighbor country like malaysia they have a good status now.....

economic success and stability can only be partially attributed to the system of government. Singapore is doing very well, but is not a parliament. US is doing relatively well, but is not a parliament. Sweden is doing well, and it is not a parliament.

wala namn siguro gaanong pagkakaiba ang kalagayan ng Pilipinas kung sakaling baguhin natin ang sistema o ang government natin kung patuloy pa rin ang mga karamihan sa pgiging selfish nila di ba u know what i mean then

tumpak!

It doesn't matter what the form of government is...what's more important are the leaders who are to take positions in the government that we will have.

If you have a good government but the people working inside it are rodents..wala ring mangyayari.

kahit anong form of government wala din yan.
nabasa niyo na ba yung In the Lense of the Filipino People ?

reasons kung bakit hindi tayo umasenso :
we are not a nation.
tribal factions
hot climate
different customs and traditions

Sa ngayon wala pa ako maisip na klase ng gobyerno para sa bayan. Ang titigas ng mga Ut^n ng mga kababayan natin eh.

tyrrany or dictorship will do.

[radio commentator mode]

honestly, i think democracy is the best one for pinoys.

kung magpalit p ng form of govt, laking sakit ng ulo nnaman. gastos lng.

communism won't work. halos wla nang komunistang bansa ngaun. kung naghihirap n tyo as democracy, e communism p kya? e nde nman fully na2pad ng communism ang utopia n envision nya.

kya lng tlaga palpak ang demokrasya d2 dhil nde equally distributed ang resources. lalung yumayaman ang myayaman, at lalung humihirap ang mga mhhirap.

[/radio commentator mode]

Check out this article by Teddy Benigno. It articulates clearly why Western forms of government applied in their purest form (i.e. off-the-shelf) will never succeed in our cultural setting.

Happy reading!

hehe... ako presidential. kung parliamentary tayo, the ones who will be making the decisions are the senate and congress.. tapos may dalawang leaders: yung isa, for show. Yung isa for hands-on.

what form of goverment will work in the Philippines?? well everything will work with its various pro's and cons.. but not one will solely meet the country's needs. Even in a great nation like the US, there are lots of fraud and debauchery that are well hidden, so as to protect its public image and charisma. It is not right to make such a country a model... It's the Filipinos' job to fight greed and thus put forward what is really needed by the MAJORITY "in number".

the problem is not really the form of government, but the people. not just the politicians,but the country as a whole. no matter what government structure you impose if the people participating in it does not put the good of the whole country before themselves, it will still end up the same as now. as one teacher said before, it is not the political system...it is the political culture.
Filipinos should assess themselves if they have taken part into making their counry better. and i do not mean by taking part as by attending protests and rallys ( which is is just another form of complaining dissatisfaction), what i mean is actually doing something. having the initiative to start within the family, the street, the town. it sounds very preachy.. but the point is that filipinos just complain. if they are upset about the government, they result to rallys and protests and eventually to viloence. filipinos do not actually and directly solve the country's problems.instead, they use their mouths and yell for the solution to come to them.

i think you hit the nail on the head.

i also think that reality has historical basis, particularly in the trend of disenfranchisement between the people in power (not just political, we're including economic and perhaps even religious), and those not in power (everyone else.) it's not a class struggle or anything like that. but when the powerless have legitimate greivances, there aren't a whole lot of avenues for them to be heard. and since they feel that they're powerless to begin with, then they take no initiative to start change themselves. hence the bellyaching.

The filipino people are usually good at critizing things but not very diligent in starting change in their own selves. So no matter what form of government it would take; it would greatly rely on the people to have a better country/government as with the help of hopefully "honest" & "sincere" politicians.

But then their are this key facts that would make this "harder" to acheive since geologically the country isn't united as a whole to do it. People are divided into islands/mountains and people have different beliefs without proper information to help all of them to understand more than just voicing out and protesting hoping to make things just suddenly better. I just hope that the people would just stick into one idea and try to resolve problems. Hopefully somebody would bring that kind of Marcos style when he was improving our country.

In the final analysis, what would really be matter is how the leader makes use of his position in the government to bring out the best the a country can offer. In the case of the Philippines, we have had problems with the government in the past primarily because of weak implementation of programs and projects. More recently, however, things have improved and I must say it's because we have a better breed of people in the administration who really make things work in the government.