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5FootCarrot
We dwell too much on the negative regarding the Philippines. This "survey says: hopeless Philippines" crap that's been going around is getting on my nerves. I'm proud to say I'm busting my behind for this country and I'm not looking for any thanks, but it sounds like we're not doing anything about the "hopeless" situation here. Pardon me, but we are.

Everyone, of course, is entitled to his/her own opinion and share it as he/she sees fit. I just wish they'd look at all angles even just a teensy bit more.

People rag on GMA a lot, but can't propose any alternatives to having her as President. And on this "hopeless situation," what other option have you got? You can apply for citizenship elsewhere, but it'll take years; you can turn TNT, but what kind of a life is that, especially if you brought over your entire family?

The only edge North America has on us is the cooler weather. The allegations of fraud and loss of investor and consumer confidence go to show that even the almighty US has the corporate governance problems that were exacerbated during the 1997 Asian crisis. And I don't mean to scare anyone, but in a place where immigrants are treated as second-class citizens, who do you think will be the first to go when crunch time hits?

I have nothing against seeking greener pastures elsewhere. I may do the same myself someday. But I want to go abroad on my terms; and that means everything must be in order when I get there. No hiding, no taking chances. And I won't be leaving because I feel that the Philippines is "hopeless."

In the meantime, I am staying and fighting. If and when I leave, it will be after I have given what I can to my country.
reyesaa
Moving abroad does not necessarily have to be seen as giving up on the Philippines. For some, it is an opportunity to earn a higher level of achievement that would not have benn possible had that person decided to stay in the Philippines. The rest of the world presents a great opportunity to pit yourself against the best the world has to offer.

Likewise, people leaving the country do not necessarily have to be seen as a loss for our country, even if they seek citizenship elsewhere. What's important is that they do not lose their sense of national identity.

I say this bec. I am very impressed at the way overseas Chinese, Indians, Irish, Koreans, and so on have been very instrumental in the development of their own homeland. If the overseas Filipino community can match the sense of national identity of the other ethnic groups, no doubt they will be a very instrumental to our country's prosperity.

Unfortunately, that does not seem to be the case right now.
tennis_schlager
QUOTE
Originally posted by reyesaa:
I say this bec. I am very impressed at the way overseas Chinese, Indians, Irish, Koreans, and so on have been very instrumental in the development of their own homeland. If the overseas Filipino community can match the sense of national identity of the other ethnic groups, no doubt they will be a very instrumental to our country's prosperity.

Unfortunately, that does not seem to be the case right now.


Just curious reyesaa, what part of the world are you living in right now? Is the immigrant Filipino community apathetic and lacking in national identity there?
reyesaa
QUOTE
Originally posted by tennis_schlager:
Just curious reyesaa, what part of the world are you living in right now? Is the immigrant Filipino community apathetic and lacking in national identity there?


USA. Compared to the the ethnic Chinese, Koreans, Indians, Irish, et al, I would say "yes". How far have they gone? Chinese and Korean grocers, for example, have banded together and formed national cooperatives so they could purchase supplies in bulk at steep discounts. They go that far to help each other's businesses succeed and they even source supplies from back home. Indians (and even sub-groups such as Tamils, Singhalese, etc.) have built hundreds of community centers across North America, not only in specific areas, where they not only serve as places to congregate but also help their newly-emigrated countrymen cope in their new country through support structures and career offers. Indian IT-preneurs have made billions in the Silicon Valley by cooperating (or conniving) with each other to win tech deals (ex. Indian VCs invest millions in Indian startups), and what they earned, they reinvested back in Bangalore. Even the Palestinian-Americans have put up charitable organizations to solicit funds to support the families of suicide bombers - and the money that flows through these channels is astounding (outrageous, but effective).

While I am not saying that there is no desire or no effort among the Filipino community here or everywhere else to establish a strong national identity, success in this endeavor must be measured against that of others. What is lakcing to complete the picture is execution. The sad thing is that the overseas Filipino community actually had a headstart against other nationalities up to the early 1980s, but clearly other ethnic groups have caught up and overtaken them.

[ July 20, 2002: Message edited by: reyesaa ]
alfagil
Are you fighting to improve your own lot or that of the Filipino people? These are not overlapping interests, and it looks like a choice for one is detrimental to the other.

The difference of life in the USA vs. life in the Philippines is like night and day and to say that the cool weather is the only benefit is just a little off base. I've heard my lola make that comment but then again her family has lived a sheltered and priveleged life (Forbes Park, Ayala Alabang, country clubs etc) so I know that it's true in the context in which she says it, which is to say that it's true for here and the 0.1% that are in similar circumstances but totally false for the rest of the population. Don't get me wrong I'm glad for her but it does not change the harsh reality for the rest of us.

Indeed why would she choose to live here in the US as opposed to there. Who in their right mind would abandon their maids, cooks, drivers, etc, for a life here where you'd have to fend for yourself? I'll tell you who - those maids, cooks, and drivers and 90% of the natives there who have no hope of ever rising above the ashes.

The difference here in the US is that an average citizen has more of a fighting chance to make a decent living for himself and his family than the same average citizen there (or any other third world country). And this is without having to cash in on the good old family name and old school tie. Succeed on your own merit alone - a largely forgotten concept there.

This is not an attack on you - simply a response to your implication that reports of the Philippine's economic/political demise have been geatly exaggerated.
5FootCarrot
QUOTE
Originally posted by alfagil:
Are you fighting to improve your own lot or that of the Filipino people? These are not overlapping interests, and it looks like a choice for one is detrimental to the other.


I never thought I'd get flamed for being a public servant rolleyes.gif

QUOTE
...90% of the natives there who have no hope of ever rising above the ashes.


I get your point about the cold-weather thing. I admit I am lucky enough to have been born into a comfortable situation and this is why my mom said what she did.

But "natives"? "No hope"? I'm working for these people you call "natives" and wish I had the power to just push them out of the damn ashes but I don't.

*deep breath* Sorry. Getting frustrated.

QUOTE
This is not an attack on you - simply a response to your implication that reports of the Philippine's economic/political demise have been geatly exaggerated.


I sincerely hope that people here and abroad really don't think this place is going to hell. I suppose working in NEDA has made me (over-)sensitive to this kind of thing.

I just want to make it clear that there are more than corrupt politicians in government. There is corruption, yes, and this must be stamped out; but I hope you know that there are people working for the good of the country. Other people just don't seem to be aware of that sad.gif

Thank you for hearing me out and I hope Filipinos abroad can band together and make their lives overseas better soon.

[/RANT]
joescoundrel
5footcarrot,
I've lived and worked in the US and in the country in nearly equal amounts. I've been to other countries on business and pleasure as well. I've seen the differences among countries, cultures and races, and there are good and bad things about all of them. I still find myself coming back to the Philippines though. Right now, like you, I am working for the government. The reason I keep coming back - aside from the cold weather that I really cannot stand - is that I feel as if I can make a more direct and positive impact here in the country, for the country and for my self. For me it was a choice. I'm earning the equivalent of less than $3600 a year here, and I got no maid, no driver, not even my own apartment, but I like it here. No winters, no rascism, no homesickness. I got no problems being in the Third World for the simple reason that this ain't gonna be the Third World forever, and even if it were, it ain't always gonna be this bad, or at least as bad as its pictured out to be. We get no drive-by shootings, hosings, heat waves, twisters, cyclones. We get plenty of great tropical weather where people don't freeze to death. The problem with a lot of us who have seen or even lived or still live on the other side of the tracks is that we often fail to distinguish between a problem and an inconvenience. To us P50-$1 is a problem, guess what it feels like for countries who don't even have a steady supply of hard currency. To us not getting celphone coverage is a problem, guess what its like living someplace where only the militias and the criminals have celphones. To us not having a gimik on weekend nights is a problem, guess what its like for people whose most important nightime activity is not getting picked off by a sniper just to cross your own street. To us news of kidnapping and war is a problem, guess what its like for people living in Sulu or Lamitan or Lanao or Dolores. To us expensive gas is a problem, guess what its like for laborers making do with ordinary buses because aircon buses are out of their budget. To the truly hopelessly skeptical this country may really be going straight to shit. But KUDOS to you 5footcarrot, for being among the few and the proud who stick it out and fight the good fight. THAT to me is living the Ateneo Spirit FOR REAL. There's no such thing as a hopeless situation, only people who give up hope.
raggster
i agree with 5footcarrot. being a fellow government employee (DILG-LGA), i also feel strongly about how people keep saying that the economy is going down, the government is worthless, yaddayaddayadda.

take government budget, for example. estimates are that the government is at a P10B decifit. people say, "Oh no, more utang!" without realizing that most of this debt was incurred through government spending in terms of infrastructure, equipment and services upgrading. not to mention the fact that a sizeable portion of that deficit going back to even before Erap.

economically speaking, a government deficit through government spending is also a fiscal policy that aims to slow down inflation and inflation rates. had the government not done so, prices of goods would have gone up higher than the minimum wage rate could handle. and that would be a crisis.

people complain about the prices of gas, but never know that in other countries, they pay for gas in the same rate, in dollars. (ie. P15/L here ~ $15/L there)

peopel complain that government is kurakot or tamad. but between 1 president, 12 senators, 250+ congressmen, and about 100,000 frontliners people generalize as the "government," and more than 500,000 government employees nationwide working their butts off to make a fragile system work, who's really representative of what?

what people see isn't really what they're getting. unfortunately, people keep making decisions on just what they see. sad.gif
5FootCarrot
QUOTE
I got no problems being in the Third World for the simple reason that this ain't gonna be the Third World forever, and even if it were, it ain't always gonna be this bad, or at least as bad as its pictured out to be.

To the truly hopelessly skeptical this country may really be going straight to shit. But KUDOS to you 5footcarrot, for being among the few and the proud who stick it out and fight the good fight. THAT to me is living the Ateneo Spirit FOR REAL. There's no such thing as a hopeless situation, only people who give up hope.


thanks so much, joescoundrel! smile.gif i feel a lot better after reading your thoughts. for a while there, i was feeling like a self-righteous idiot ohmy.gif

thanks also, raggster. smile.gif i'm glad to know there are other atenean public servants who aren't afraid to take the government's side.

i am happy that i'm in government service. the work is certainly more intelligent than what i used to do in the private sector, and it's much more fulfilling. i'm proud that i'm trying to be part of the solution rather than spend all my time griping about the problem. no matter what i choose to do in the future, at least i did something for our country :cool:
GRO_cindy
QUOTE
Originally posted by joescoundrel:
THAT to me is living the Ateneo Spirit FOR REAL. There's no such thing as a hopeless situation, only people who give up hope.


This is being too idealistic. believing even if it's obviously hopeless. the patriotism is admirable, having ideals and sense a vision.but no matter how much u believe this country will recover, that is just a belief, its not reality. you need to accept things as they really are. it may sound cynical, but thats reality. This country has little hope, with the lack of discipline of most people and corruption in the government. unless you could change the attitudes of all filipinos in time, we have hope. pero malabo e.
reyesaa
QUOTE
Originally posted by raggster:
i agree with 5footcarrot. being a fellow government employee (DILG-LGA), i also feel strongly about how people keep saying that the economy is going down, the government is worthless, yaddayaddayadda.

take government budget, for example. estimates are that the government is at a P10B decifit. people say, "Oh no, more utang!" without realizing that most of this debt was incurred through government spending in terms of infrastructure, equipment and services upgrading. not to mention the fact that a sizeable portion of that deficit going back to even before Erap.

economically speaking, a government deficit through government spending is also a fiscal policy that aims to slow down inflation and inflation rates. had the government not done so, prices of goods would have gone up higher than the minimum wage rate could handle. and that would be a crisis.

people complain about the prices of gas, but never know that in other countries, they pay for gas in the same rate, in dollars. (ie. P15/L here ~ $15/L there)

peopel complain that government is kurakot or tamad. but between 1 president, 12 senators, 250+ congressmen, and about 100,000 frontliners people generalize as the "government," and more than 500,000 government employees nationwide working their butts off to make a fragile system work, who's really representative of what?

what people see isn't really what they're getting. unfortunately, people keep making decisions on just what they see. sad.gif


Technically, there are 2 ways by w/c the government can pay for the deficit - (1) seignorage (print more money) or (2) debt. The problem w/ seignorage is that by its very nature, it is inflationary. Debt, on the other hand, increases the country's risk. And more debt by itself does not guarentee spending in infrastructure. Many times, the IMF requires borrowers to limit governement spending. So what good does the debt do? Just enough to pay interest on existing debt. Then the problem becomes cyclical.

Each method to cover the deficit has its pros and cons, so not one is "perfect" or "best". But in any case, the county cannot solve its economic woes on monetary or fiscal policy alone. That's what Argentina tried to do - look for that magic economic pill, and they failed. At the root of it all, the country has to liberalize the economy, make local businesses more competitive by opening them up to global competition, make wages flexible, seek niche areas where we have a competitive advantage, and most important of all - improve peace and order. This is by far the largest albatross around the Philippine's neck.
reyesaa
QUOTE
Originally posted by raggster:
i agree with 5footcarrot. being a fellow government employee (DILG-LGA), i also feel strongly about how people keep saying that the economy is going down, the government is worthless, yaddayaddayadda.

take government budget, for example. estimates are that the government is at a P10B decifit. people say, "Oh no, more utang!" without realizing that most of this debt was incurred through government spending in terms of infrastructure, equipment and services upgrading. not to mention the fact that a sizeable portion of that deficit going back to even before Erap.

economically speaking, a government deficit through government spending is also a fiscal policy that aims to slow down inflation and inflation rates. had the government not done so, prices of goods would have gone up higher than the minimum wage rate could handle. and that would be a crisis.

people complain about the prices of gas, but never know that in other countries, they pay for gas in the same rate, in dollars. (ie. P15/L here ~ $15/L there)

peopel complain that government is kurakot or tamad. but between 1 president, 12 senators, 250+ congressmen, and about 100,000 frontliners people generalize as the "government," and more than 500,000 government employees nationwide working their butts off to make a fragile system work, who's really representative of what?

what people see isn't really what they're getting. unfortunately, people keep making decisions on just what they see. sad.gif


Technically, there are 2 ways by w/c the government can pay for the deficit - (1) seignorage (print more money) or (2) debt. The problem w/ seignorage is that by its very nature, it is inflationary. Debt, on the other hand, increases the country's risk. And more debt by itself does not guarentee spending in infrastructure. Many times, the IMF requires borrowers to limit governement spending. So what good does the debt do? Just enough to pay interest on existing debt. Then the problem becomes cyclical.

Each method to cover the deficit has its pros and cons, so not one is "perfect" or "best". But in any case, the county cannot solve its economic woes on monetary or fiscal policy alone. That's what Argentina tried to do - look for that magic economic pill, and they failed. At the root of it all, the country has to liberalize the economy, make local businesses more competitive by opening them up to global competition, make wages flexible, seek niche areas where we have a competitive advantage, and most important of all, improve peace and order. Peace and order problems are by far the largest albatrosses around the Philippine's neck.
tennis_schlager
QUOTE
Originally posted by reyesaa:
Technically, there are 2 ways by w/c the government can pay for the deficit - (1) seignorage (print more money) or (2) debt.


What about (3) collect more tax revenue, (4) sell non-performing government firms / assets.

We've done (4) but we can never seem to make much progress with (3).
reyesaa
QUOTE
Originally posted by tennis_schlager:
What about (3) collect more tax revenue, (4) sell non-performing government firms / assets.

We've done (4) but we can never seem to make much progress with (3).


Seignorage is itself a form of tax - otherwise known as "inflation tax". The gov't collects this tax by printing money (assuming that printing a single bill costs close to nothing) and using this new money to buy goods and services. This tax is paid for by any member of the public who holds money bec. inflation erodes the purchasing power of money. The trick is to increase seignorage just enough so that the rise in this "inflation tax" collection outweighs the decline in real money holdings (aka. people dumping money for assets when they realize that its purchasing power has gone down thereby causing prices of goods to increase).
raggster
QUOTE
Originally posted by reyesaa:
Technically, there are 2 ways by w/c the government can pay for the deficit - (1) seignorage (print more money)...


not a good idea. as you've said, it's an inflationary measure.

QUOTE
...or (2) debt.


as i've mentioned.

QUOTE
Debt, on the other hand, increases the country's risk. And more debt by itself does not guarentee spending in infrastructure.


yes, it does increase risk. but between higher inflation rates and higher risk, i think gov't is more willing to gamble on higher risk, as this has less immediate and more manageable short-term effects. of course, they will have to correct the risk before it starts to hurt the economy more than help it.

and as far as where the money goes, urban areas are currently practicing what we call "public accounting," where public fund of the cities and municipalities are regularly posted for info dissemination. see for yourself if infrastructure is one of the top expenditures of your local government.

QUOTE
Many times, the IMF requires borrowers to limit governement spending. So what good does the debt do? Just enough to pay interest on existing debt. Then the problem becomes cyclical.


the problem becomes cyclical only if the country lacks the capacity to make the loaned money earn money. and that's a problem that the government cannot handle alone.

QUOTE

At the root of it all, the country has to liberalize the economy, make local businesses more competitive by opening them up to global competition, make wages flexible, seek niche areas where we have a competitive advantage, and most important of all, improve peace and order.


on globalization: in terms of development economics, increased competition will only swallow up firms that cannot compete. from a business perspective, this would be good; from a governance perspective, you're looking at higher unemployment rates, and perhaps even a contribution to the peace and order problem you were talking about. perhaps globalization in certain industries that don't need protection, like processed foods and electronics parts, pwede pa.

on flexible wages: companies that cannot afford to keep wages flexible will have to either cut down their labor or close shop. same results.

on competetive advantages: our competetive advantage is a more capable labor force. to fully utilize this requires investors, preferably local ones, to create jobs and to expand operations - be willing to spend. and that's something few venture capitalists are willing to do.

on peace and order: having a peace and order situation directly tied to poverty incidence doesn't help our undermanned police force. the best thing we can do is to police ourselves and to be actively involved in anti-crime efforts. (short of vigilantism, of course.)
raggster
QUOTE
Originally posted by GRO_cindy:
This is being too idealistic. believing even if it's obviously hopeless.


wasn't the whole point of this thread that the Philippines isn't "obviously hopeless?"

QUOTE
the patriotism is admirable, having ideals and sense a vision.but no matter how much u believe this country will recover, that is just a belief, its not reality. you need to accept things as they really are. it may sound cynical, but thats reality. This country has little hope, with the lack of discipline of most people and corruption in the government. unless you could change the attitudes of all filipinos in time, we have hope. pero malabo e.


what's malabo is that you're insisting na walang pag-asa ang Pilipinas, despite the fact that we've already pointed out that that isn't the case. again, why the negative reaction?
reyesaa
QUOTE
Originally posted by raggster:
on globalization: in terms of development economics, increased competition will only swallow up firms that cannot compete. from a business perspective, this would be good; from a governance perspective, you're looking at higher unemployment rates, and perhaps even a contribution to the peace and order problem you were talking about. perhaps globalization in certain industries that don't need protection, like processed foods and electronics parts, pwede pa.

on flexible wages: companies that cannot afford to keep wages flexible will have to either cut down their labor or close shop. same results.

on competetive advantages: our competetive advantage is a more capable labor force. to fully utilize this requires investors, preferably local ones, to create jobs and to expand operations - be willing to spend. and that's something few venture capitalists are willing to do.

on peace and order: having a peace and order situation directly tied to poverty incidence doesn't help our undermanned police force. the best thing we can do is to police ourselves and to be actively involved in anti-crime efforts. (short of vigilantism, of course.)


I would be more cautious before judging that we are better of with higher inflation than with “risk”. One of the biggest risks the Philippines as a developing country can encounter is the volatility of the exchange rate. If there are sudden devaluations in the peso-dollar exchange rate, that would mean multiplying (doubling, tripling, quadrupling) the amount of debt we owe since debt is dollar denominated. This happened during the Asian financial crisis and the Erap regime. In a span of a few months, we found ourselves sunk in debt many times more that we had ever been. In such cases, inflation is more harmless. Another implication of risk is the value of the interest that we owe to the debtors. Since this interest is dollar-denominated as well, its value will multiply with a deterioration in the exchange rate. How can we measure this risk? American financial institutions did a study of the volatility (ex., standard deviation) of various Asian currencies and found the extent to which the currencies deviated were substantial and they predicted that this volatility would continue for some time.

Neither is risk always manageable. If the currencies of Asian countries are correlated, then a steep devaluation in one currency will lead to devaluation in other currencies. The same financial study showed that Asian currencies were even more correlated with each other after the crisis. This means that if one of our neighbor’s currencies such as the Won or the Baht suddenly devalues, the Peso will most likely be dragged down with it and there is nothing we can do to stop it. There are many reasons for this phenomenon. One of the most important reasons (among many others), is the fact that our markets, be it equity or money market, depend very heavily on emerging markets funds. However, when these funds invest in bonds or other securities, they invest for the whole region (they may treat China and Japan separately). So when something bad happens to one country, the fund managers will pull out their investments in the entire region and not just one country in particular. Between volatility and correlation, depending heavily on debt may not always be a good idea.

You are right, the problem becomes cyclical only if the country lacks the capacity to make the loaned money earn money. And that’s exactly what some of the IMF loan terms do – they limit the country to make loaned money earn money by forcing debtors to restrict government spending – no bridges, telecom cables, highways, and other ways to make money out of loaned money which is why debt does not guarantee infrastructure: flagship projects that have a national impact and not merely municipal roads. This is one of the reasons why we've been relying on BOTs with private firms like CITRA and Fil-Estate whose funds dried up during the economic crisis. In the end, the cash inflow is only enough to cover maturing interest payments. These terms are explicitly stated in any loan agreement. That’s why the IMF has come under fire lately because creditors seem interested only in profiting from the loans they give rather than furthering a country’s growth.

I also agree with your concerns on globalization. They are definitely well-founded and the immediate effects have been proven to be true. But the alternative is protectionism and an inflexible labor market and that has been proven to fail in the long-term. At least for countries that chose liberalization, the long-term benefits have outweighed the costs even if the experience was painful in the short-term. When a country signs a trade liberalization agreement with an organization such as APEC or the WTO, the agreement is all-encompassing and it cannot just select which industries to liberalize and which to protect, except perhaps for some agricultural commodities where quotas still exist. To fix wages and to subsidize jobs will be disastrous in the long-term as well. This is what countries like Argentina did and when they ran out of money to pay for this subsidy, they borrowed more money from the IMF. They kept on borrowing until they realized that they did not have any cash left to pay for the outstanding interest. Now they are forced to let their exchange rate and wages float with the market.

In the end, the decision on how much money supply or debt to take requires some brinkmanship, for the right balance is not always as clear cut as many of us would like it to be. Sometimes, it would take a social or political strategy to tilt this balance to our favor. I mentioned peace and order because other countries have shown that you don’t necessarily have to be well off to have a good peace and order situation. Thailand, for example, did not deteriorate into chaos after their economy collapsed in the late 90s even if their police force was undermanned and underpaid. As a result, they were among the first to recover primarily through tourism revenues, which are heavily dependent on peace and order.

Exploiting our competitive advantage is likewise important and to this extent the Philippines has had mixed results so far. On the one hand, it has done well with its quid pro quo foreign policy with the US – agreeing to become staunch allies in the War on Terror in exchange for investments and higher quotas for agricultural exports. But it has fallen short in marketing our country to the rest of the world. Thailand and Malaysia, for example, have long been promoting their countries with campaigns like “Everydayland – Thailand” and “Malaysia, Truly Asia” with Michelle Yeoh as the image model. Even Kazakhstan has a worldwide marketing campaign. We don’t need venture capitalists (VCs) to do this.
raggster
good points on the economics of the situation. smile.gif

one thing though: i just realized that we digressed when we started talking about foreign national debt. i was just talking about national deficit, in which not all of the P10B is in foreign debt. which is why i mentioned government spending: even though a lot of money came from foreign loans, there was also money coming in from local sources: taxes, government bonds, and government investments earning interest. and in those terms, government was spending the money, and not simply paying back utang.

and as for risk management, don't tell me that, because i know all that. tell that to the government "economist" who's been approving decisions like that. i'm just putting myself in their paradigm. biggrin.gif

QUOTE
Originally posted by reyesaa
As a result, they were among the first to recover primarily through tourism revenues, which are heavily dependent on peace and order.

Exploiting our competitive advantage is likewise important and to this extent the Philippines has had mixed results so far...

...But it has fallen short in marketing our country to the rest of the world. Thailand and Malaysia, for example, have long been promoting their countries with campaigns like “Everydayland – Thailand” and “Malaysia, Truly Asia” with Michelle Yeoh as the image model. Even Kazakhstan has a worldwide marketing campaign. We don’t need venture capitalists (VCs) to do this.[/B]


i've never been a fan of tourism as a means of sustaining the economy, and here's why: tourism does not promote development.

fine, it can promote influx of funds. but how many areas in the Philippines can we designate as tourist spots? and given the current setup we have in terms of the Local Government Code, how will that inflow of funds be dispersed throughout the Philippines? and how can we guarantee that tourism income will be appropriated to development, rather than maintenance of those tourist spots?

that's just one aspect of it. another is in terms of economic and cultural impact. do we really want areas to depend on tourism for LGU income? don't we want them to build and develop their own local industries?

the reason Thailand and Malaysia can promote themselves as tourist spots is because they have achieved a level of development that can support the tourism industry. tourism should be incidental to development, and not the other way around.
reyesaa
QUOTE
Originally posted by raggster:
good points on the economics of the situation. smile.gif

one thing though: i just realized that we digressed when we started talking about foreign national debt. i was just talking about national deficit, in which not all of the P10B is in foreign debt. which is why i mentioned government spending: even though a lot of money came from foreign loans, there was also money coming in from local sources: taxes, government bonds, and government investments earning interest. and in those terms, government was spending the money, and not simply paying back utang.


If inflation keeps on rising (and not just because of seignorage), then we might see the government depending more and more on foreign loans to pay for the deficit since local debt denominated in pesos may not be enough to cover the rising costs. This is actually part of the story behind the $30 billion package that Brazil got last week – to pay for the deficit as well as outstanding balances while sinking further in debt. It would be a pity if we were to end up as debt-burdened as Brazil or as inflation-wracked as Uruguay.

QUOTE
Originally posted by raggster:

i've never been a fan of tourism as a means of sustaining the economy, and here's why: tourism does not promote development.

fine, it can promote influx of funds. but how many areas in the Philippines can we designate as tourist spots? and given the current setup we have in terms of the Local Government Code, how will that inflow of funds be dispersed throughout the Philippines? and how can we guarantee that tourism income will be appropriated to development, rather than maintenance of those tourist spots?

that's just one aspect of it. another is in terms of economic and cultural impact. do we really want areas to depend on tourism for LGU income? don't we want them to build and develop their own local industries?

the reason Thailand and Malaysia can promote themselves as tourist spots is because they have achieved a level of development that can support the tourism industry. tourism should be incidental to development, and not the other way around.


I also agree with you that tourism cannot sustain development unless the Philippines were like Monaco. However, it can stimulate development and bring in much-needed foreign reserves at a time when we need it for us to invest elsewhere like education. In terms of infrastructure, at least as of 7 years ago when Thailand was already ASEAN’s largest tourist destination, Thailand’s infrastructure was not that far ahead of the Philippines. Even if you go to Bangkok or rural Thailand now, you will get some kind of feeling that you never left Manila. They even have their own squatter areas. But take a trip around the city any time of the day and you will find busy day and night markets selling high-quality merchandise at low prices, trash-free sidewalks, very knowledgeable taxi drivers who will drive you to any destination in the city and act as a tour guide without charging exorbitant fees, friendly government employees like cops and traffic aides, and more. You can also walk the streets of Bangkok anytime at night and not worry about being mugged (and to think Thailand’s laws are not as ruthless as those of Singapore). It’s really nice if all people rich and poor were to agree to be peaceful and orderly on their own. It’s as if all the people – shop vendors, pedestrians, cops, etc. were trained in hotel and restaurant management. It’s an amazingly coordinated effort between the government and the citizens (at the height of the financial crisis when the Baht was first to be hit, the Thai government launched a campaign where all citizens would be involved in attracting and keeping tourists in addition to the extensive global advertising. As a result, they were able to turn a disastrous devaluation of their currency into an advantage: dollar-rich tourists can buy more Thai goods and services for every dollar they spend.

Malaysia, on the other hand, used a different strategy other than tourism: banning strikes, cracking down on labor unions, and using tough laws and limiting the rights of the accused to enforce peace and order. Thus their country became attractive to light manufacturing investors who wanted to take advantage of cheap labor and a stable environment. I’m not sure if the Philippines can pursue these alternatives though.

Korea’s approach was to stick the dirty finger to the IMF and use the money they loaned to build critical flagship infrastructure. Against the protests of the IMF back in the 70s and early 80s, they built steel mills, shipyards, ports, and highways. Incidentally, when a developed Korea hosted the IMF worldwide gathering in the late 80s, the IMF praised the country for being an economic miracle.

India is riding on IT as its vehicle to prosperity.

Overall, I’m not saying that tourism is the best strategy for our country. It may or it may not be. I only mentioned it because it so far seems to be one of the easiest ways to raise foreign reserves. Nor do I say that what our other neighbors did is the best was for us. But one thing can be learned from their experiences – playing around with monetary and fiscal policy alone is not enough to get the country on its feet. The Philippines needs a stimulus and a strategy to pursue it. And most often this strategy cannot be found in economics textbooks. Both the people and the government will have to understand themselves and their country better, to know what they are good at and what is it they have that they can capitalize on.

By the way, here's an interesting article I read today on the Philippine Star Online:

QUOTE
RP faces credit crunch next year
By Des Ferriols
Publish Date: [Tuesday, August 13, 2002]

The Arroyo administration is also facing a credit crunch next year as troubled Latin American countries scamper for funding and crowd out other borrowers from the credit market. Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas (BSP) Governor Rafael Buenaventura told reporters that the country's traditional multilateral and bilateral fund sources are preoccupied with the financial crisis in Latin America as well as the economic dislocation in war-torn countries of the Middle East.

According to Buenaventura, the Philippines is likely to occupy a low priority rating in the list of countries that need financing as the international credit market becomes the rescuer of troubled Latin American countries. "We don't have any emergency of the same magnitude," he explained. "That itself is fortunate but it also means that for our regular borrowing requirements, we will have problems in sourcing."

This year, the fiscal deficit is expected to go up to P155 billion, way above from the Arroyo administration’s P130-billion target. Next year, the deficit target has been revised to P138 billion although the government is still scraping for additional sources of funds.


We might end up having to print more money after all.

[ 13, 2002: Message edited by: reyesaa ]
raggster
i think your article above basically answered your first point for you. we can't sink deeper into debt if we can't borrow money. in a way, that's a good thing for us, because it forces government to look into alternative means of generating funds for much-needed infrastructure.

on the issue of tourism, again, that's not how it works. tourism is handled by the respective LGU, and only facilitated by national government in the form of the DOT. whatever funds generated from tourist activity goes to the LGU, and not the national coffers. thus we can't generalize that tourism will necessarily bring in more funds for public use; the use of those funds is to be determined by the LGU, and not national gov't.

i doubt very much that gov't will print out more money, aside from the new P200 bill (which is another thread entirely wink.gif ); if ever, it will do so only as a last resort.

~~~

on another issue, you mentioned that the country needs to recognize and work on it's capabilities. most people agree that one of the major commodities we have in which we have a competetive advantage is our labor force. Filipinos generally attain a higher level of education (disregarding the quality), and are more easily trained for multinational companies, having English as a second language.

that being the case, what would you say about the influx of service-oriented multinational firms, such as call centers, here in the Philippines? do you think this is an example of resource maximization, or is it a potentially weak industry?
tennis_schlager
QUOTE
Originally posted by reyesaa:
Seignorage is itself a form of tax - otherwise known as "inflation tax". The gov't collects this tax by printing money (assuming that printing a single bill costs close to nothing) and using this new money to buy goods and services. This tax is paid for by any member of the public who holds money bec. inflation erodes the purchasing power of money. The trick is to increase seignorage just enough so that the rise in this "inflation tax" collection outweighs the decline in real money holdings (aka. people dumping money for assets when they realize that its purchasing power has gone down thereby causing prices of goods to increase).


thanks for the explanation. i'm familiar with seignorage and the way it works. it is a tax, but that's not the same as increasing tax revenue. something as simple as making sure that tax evasion is minimized. you don't have to print extra money to do that.
reyesaa
QUOTE
Originally posted by raggster:
on the issue of tourism, again, that's not how it works. tourism is handled by the respective LGU, and only facilitated by national government in the form of the DOT. whatever funds generated from tourist activity goes to the LGU, and not the national coffers. thus we can't generalize that tourism will necessarily bring in more funds for public use; the use of those funds is to be determined by the LGU, and not national gov't.

i doubt very much that gov't will print out more money, aside from the new P200 bill (which is another thread entirely wink.gif ); if ever, it will do so only as a last resort.


Sorry I wasn’t clear. What I meant was that tourists bring revenues into our economy even if the immediate proceeds do not necessarily go directly to the national government. The fact that LGUs get the first crack at these proceeds is a benefit in itself since this would mean fresh money from the outside without having to borrow or print. But more important than accounting revenues is the foreign exchange that tourism generates. I don’t know what the money changers do with the dollars they get from tourists, but in one way or another, this currency will bolster the entire economy’s reserves – money changers will go to banks to exchange dollars for pesos because they will still need pesos to buy peso-priced goods and services. Why is this important? Because this is what we need primarily to protect the peso-dollar exchange rate as well as buy goods and services (imports) priced in dollars and pay for dollar-denominated debt.

QUOTE
Originally posted by raggster:

i doubt very much that gov't will print out more money, aside from the new P200 bill (which is another thread entirely wink.gif ); if ever, it will do so only as a last resort.


So did I for a while until news of the $32 billion Brazil-Uruguay loan package came out. By any standard, that is a very staggering amount and just as the Philippine economy’s money supply is limited, so is that of the rest of the world. That $32 billion they gave to Brazil and Uruguay was also $32 billion taken away from other countries that need it. The country may not feel the effects immediately, but maybe within the next year or so we might feel the effects of a credit crunch. What does this mean for us? It means that it would be harder to borrow money, that the IMF would require even more conditions before loans are granted, and that the global interest rates would increase (meaning we would pay more interest in both our existing loans and any future loans we borrow).

QUOTE
Originally posted by raggster:



on another issue, you mentioned that the country needs to recognize and work on it's capabilities. most people agree that one of the major commodities we have in which we have a competetive advantage is our labor force. Filipinos generally attain a higher level of education (disregarding the quality), and are more easily trained for multinational companies, having English as a second language.

that being the case, what would you say about the influx of service-oriented multinational firms, such as call centers, here in the Philippines? do you think this is an example of resource maximization, or is it a potentially weak industry?


This is just my personal opinion – call centers and the likes are very unstable industries because demand for these services is very volatile plus employment turnover rates are high. But then again, what industry is stable these days? Even investment banks are laying off. Besides, a job’s a job and when jobs are hard to come by, any job sounds good. It is also a kind of business that best fits the talents of Filipinos. Also, this is a good strategy to stabilize society ASAP. The more new jobs created in the shortest possible time, the sooner we can have a more stable peace and order situation with more people earning an honest day’s work instead of resorting to crime. Then we can use that peace to attract more investors who would otherwise have avoided our country.

So the answer to your question is yes it is an example of resource maximization and yes it is also an example of a weak industry. The challenge for the Philippine labor force is to be able to acquire new skills quickly and anticipate labor market trends. If in case the demand for call centers go down, then they must search for other service jobs such as data transcribing, accounting outsourcing (we lost to India in the bid to outsource the World Bank’s accounting operations which could have meant more than 1000 new jobs), and more.
raggster
(last na ito on tourism, promise!)

the assumption that tourism will generate foreign currency exchange and sprout other little industries on the side heavily relies on the premise that tourism is sustainable.

i'm of the opinion that for tourism to be sustainable, large sums need to be spent, something many LGU's don't have. furthermore, national concerns such as peace and order will still affect the level of tourism in any part of the country, regardless of how much investment is placed into tourism. so in this respect, tourism has too many factors involved to become a sustainable venture for any given LGU in the Philippines.

QUOTE
Originally posted by reyesaa:
This is just my personal opinion – call centers and the likes are very unstable industries because demand for these services is very volatile plus employment turnover rates are high. But then again, what industry is stable these days? Even investment banks are laying off. Besides, a job’s a job and when jobs are hard to come by, any job sounds good. It is also a kind of business that best fits the talents of Filipinos. Also, this is a good strategy to stabilize society ASAP. The more new jobs created in the shortest possible time, the sooner we can have a more stable peace and order situation with more people earning an honest day’s work instead of resorting to crime. Then we can use that peace to attract more investors who would otherwise have avoided our country.

So the answer to your question is yes it is an example of resource maximization and yes it is also an example of a weak industry. The challenge for the Philippine labor force is to be able to acquire new skills quickly and anticipate labor market trends. If in case the demand for call centers go down, then they must search for other service jobs such as data transcribing, accounting outsourcing (we lost to India in the bid to outsource the World Bank’s accounting operations which could have meant more than 1000 new jobs), and more.


not much difference in opinion here. smile.gif
joescoundrel
ReyesAA, Raggster, 5footcarrot,
Guys, time out on this one but I need a little enlightenment on a separate topic. Could any of you guys check my started topic in the Life At Rockwell forum? Its the thread about FOOTNOTING and REFERENCING. Tennis_schlager has posted but I think i need to hear from you other guys. See if you can find your way over to the thread. Thanks.
5FootCarrot
www.sws.org.ph

apparently, the media has sensationalized the survey results regarding the alleged hopelessness of the Philippines; and i understand that the question of hope has always been tied to that of the desire to live abroad.

still, it is sad to see so much negativity regarding the state of the country. a poor situation is not one to be left behind, but to be improved.
vero_nique
QUOTE
Originally posted by joescoundrel:

I got no problems being in the Third World for the simple reason that this ain't gonna be the Third World forever, and even if it were, it ain't always gonna be this bad, or at least as bad as its pictured out to be...


I believe so, too. Let’s keep our hopes up, for our future children’s sake! I’m glad there are people like you who feel the same way I do.
smile.gif
vero_nique
QUOTE
Originally posted by tennis_schlager:
What about (3) collect more tax revenue, (4) sell non-performing government firms / assets.

We've done (4) but we can never seem to make much progress with (3).


Steps to increase the collection targets of the Bureaus of Internal Revenue and Customs for the year 2002 are now in place, according to Finance Secretary Jose Lito Camacho.

In a report to Malacanang, Camacho said reform measures in the two bureaus are estimated to yield more than P20 billion in additional revenues.

Budget Secretary Emilia Boncodin said the government expects to raise revenue collections of about P624.3 billion next year, 11.8 percent higher than this year's target of P558.2 billion and 15.8 percent of the country’s gross domestic product (GDP).

This is slightly higher than the 15.5 percent revenue effort realized in 2000, Boncodin said, adding that consistent with the government's deficit reduction policy, cash disbursement for next year is pegged at P754.3 billion.

According to Boncodin, a big chunk of the expected revenues will come from taxes, which comprise P571.3 billion or 92 percent of the total revenue collections, and the balance of P53.1 billion will come from non-tax resources.
reyesaa
Here's something from today's edition of the Philippine Star:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DEMAND AND SUPPLY by Boo Chanco
The Philippine Star 04/21/2003

I read your column today in the on-line version of Philippine STAR. I agree with your analysis on the Philippine economy and can identify with the sentiment of some Filipinos who have left for overseas or are still in Manila and longing to live abroad.

My friend Mario wrote you before. He was the guy who studied in Ateneo and has moved to the USA to work in an IT firm. I left the Philippines last year after I was awarded my permanent resident status in Australia. I did not leave the Philippines because I did not have great opportunities but because I could not take the socio-political system.

I grew up in the province and went to one of the best schools in Metro Manila. I worked hard and finished my elementary course with honors, high school as class valedictorian and college as summa cum laude and valedictorian. After college, I opted to teach where I finished my degree to do my share in nation building. It was a very unpopular decision. Some friends considered me a loser for deciding to teach. I spent about two years in academia. I was then awarded scholarships to study overseas: one to study management and economics courses at the National University of Singapore and the other to take my master’s degree at the University of Sydney. I was also offered a Monbusho scholarship by the Japanese government.

I am not bragging about my credentials but merely to tell you that all throughout those times that I lived abroad, the interests of the Philippines were always in my heart and mind. What inspired me to study hard was the thought that I could one day become one of the leaders of the Philippines. I loved the Philippines so much that I devoted my Masters thesis analyzing the economic system of the Philippines.

After my Masters degree, I opted to work in the Philippines once again as a management consultant in one of the global consultancy firms. While it was a multinational company, I knew that helping local companies become more efficient will deepen my understanding of what can be done to further strengthen and solidify the role of the private sector in nation building. My dedication resulted to an overseas consultancy stint in an advanced Asian country for a Fortune 500 client. Despite lucrative job offers, I opted to leave consulting after three years and decided to gain experience in a real-industry setting in Philippine companies.

I must say that the four-year experience in local companies (in executive level positions) was frustrating but what inspired me to stay on was my belief in the Philippines, what it stood for and the future it holds for its people because Filipinos, in general, are talented and hardworking.

The political events of the recent years however disappointed me. No single event spurred me to apply for an immigrant status overseas. It is perhaps the cumulative result of my dealings with the well-off and the politicians. Most of the rich people I know are not concerned with how wealth can be distributed more equally amongst the population. The lower classes on the other hand look at short term gains (we cannot really blame them because no one can think of the future with an empty stomach). The politicians are more concerned with staying in power.

No one knows where the Philippines aspires to be five, 10 or 15 years from now. Correct me if I am wrong Mr. Chanco but what I see is a vicious cycle that leads to a downward spiral. The problem is systemic that is also deeply rooted in the culture.
The realization just hit me one day. The thought that I cannot even be safe in my own country bothered me.

I got my permanent resident visa in Australia in mid-2002. I was able to get a job in one of the biggest service companies here even before moving to Sydney with the help of one of my foreign bosses who believed in my capabilities and talents. As of now, I am determined to change my citizenship so that I can one day work in government here because I am really attracted to public service. I am also focused on bringing my sisters and parents over.

My kids will no longer be Filipinos but I will make it a point that they appreciate their background by making them visit the Philippines regularly. It is something that remains to be seen because I am not even sure if someday it will be a safe place for tourists.

The sad part is, I am not one of the few who have left. My friends who have also gone abroad to study and returned to the Philippines to work are leaving the country one by one. I miss my friends and family in the Philippines but I left with no regrets because I know deep in my heart that I gave that country my very best shot while I was there.
fray torquemada
I have to admit I'm one of those who view the Philippines' future as "hopeless." I'm also placing the controversial word in quotes for it may not be that abysmal as we think . In the initial sense of what you hear, what you see and what you read -- what do you expect? An overflowing sense of pride?
Being an American of Filipino heritage, I'm not in a position to criticize and put down a country not of my citizenship. My hats are off to those who actually stay and toil and try their darnest to improve the Philippine lot. They are the true heroes who keep the Philippines afloat--so are the OFWs who only see the foreign route as a means to an end.

Currently, I've been assigned to monitor some of the work permits of individuals from special interest countries like Iran, Iraq, Saudi, Yemen, Pakistan, Indonesia....etc and since the Philippines has been a transit point for these "special people" I come across with pinoy work permits in the US. And it's so sad when virtually 7/10 of the pinoy management consultant, IT, banking work permits in the US hail from Ateneo, La Salle and UP--the best and the brightest. And already a quarter of them are already in the process of adjusting status to Lawful Permanent Residence (green card holder). This hemorrhage has got to stop sometime, somehow. That's why I'm proud of those who stick it out under the punishing sun of the south east orient. I mean Koreans, Indians, Viets, do the same but they always return to their asian homes and help in the nation-building.
The advantage of having the command in the english language with the possession of the American thought process is actually double-edged sword. On one end, the language edge facilitates the entry into the High-echelon American workforce. On the other end, the edge also causes the faltering of national/ethnic cohesion in a foreign land. If I can blend in quick, there's no use for my fellow pinoy -- and that's the sad mentality.
Although some pinoys love to put some guilt trip on myself for not caring much for the Philippines, I'm absolutely unperturbed. I live and die by the American flag -- so did my granfathers, grand-uncles and uncles. By American military reasons, I'm one of those pinoys whose families left the Philippines when the Philippines was a great place to live-in. Thus, no guilt. But I do have the concern and do help in my own little way financially. I wish I do could more.
But there is hope. As I've always said time and time again--the Philippines is a young nation among nations. It is undergoing a painful evolution. The first world nations like the US went through pangs of hatred, genocide, wars, etc...I think (I hope) it cannot get worst for the Philippines anymore. When you're down, there's no way but up.
fray torquemada
The political events of the recent years however disappointed me. No single event spurred me to apply for an immigrant status overseas. It is perhaps the cumulative result of my dealings with the well-off and the politicians. [U]Most of the rich people I know are not concerned with how wealth can be distributed more equally amongst the population. The lower classes on the other hand look at short term gains (we cannot really blame them because no one can think of the future with an empty stomach). The politicians are more concerned with staying in power.
This quote from the Boo Chanco article is almost right on the dot. I said almost because in reality, most of the rich in any part of the world will never be concerned about the poor and the alleviation of the latter's plight. As a rabid Conservative Republican, I don't believe in all this talk about the equitable distribution of wealth. And the irony is, I'm not the rich american boy. i'm the middleclass minority american who worked hard for almost everything that i have and pay for everything that i owe. what i believe in is taking responsibility of your actions and your future with the minimal reliance to the powers that be. i don't blame the rich for being rich. class warfare as i see, is for sore losers who can't hack it out in the real world--which is darwinian by nature.
but setting aside my conservative values, i do think the philippine scenario is quite different when it comes to issues of rich versus poor. here in the US, there is virtually no excuse to be poor for the institutions of self development abound. in the philippines, i do agree that the rich, in SOME way, has to be blamed. if i grew up and stayed on in the philippines, i could have been a leftist bastard. it's easy to be a hateful communist in a country where the poor 9 out of 10 times stay as poor. it's easy to be a barefoot marxist (not the fake armchair intellectuals)in the boonies when the rich bragadociously display everyday how infinitely better off they are than the rest of the population--just reminding the poor of his place and that he's not going anywhere. The basic fact is the rich in the philippines and the rich in the US are both greedy, quite devious, and highly suspect. personally, i see greed as a virtue -- a source of motivation to be better. But the rich in the Philippines refuse to invest in its poor. the american rich sees the poor in a diff way--a venue to invest--that by investing on them and opening accesses to opportunities, they're not only faking civic responsibility, and making the population satisfied, they're also expanding their own wealth exponentially. Very few of the Filipino rich are investing on the poor. even by looking at it in a self-interest, greed perspective, it's quite workable in the philippines.
but then again, these are just conjectures w/ strong historical bases--the traditional rich in america simply saw the profitability in the expansion of wealth by spending money--in this case on the poor. Contended communities = lesser forces of deviation (and perhaps a better life for the majority).

[ April 22, 2003: Message edited by: fray torquemada ]
mac_bolan00
QUOTE
Originally posted by alfagil:
The difference here in the US is that an average citizen has more of a fighting chance to make a decent living for himself and his family than the same average citizen there (or any other third world country). And this is without having to cash in on the good old family name and old school tie. Succeed on your own merit alone - a largely forgotten concept there.

This is not an attack on you - simply a response to your implication that reports of the Philippine's economic/political demise have been geatly exaggerated.

what i have to say to you is, WHO THE HELL CARES ABOUT 'AVERAGE PEOPLE'? here in the philippines, good people do well for themselves. some do so well that better prospects outside don't even come to mind.

[ April 22, 2003: Message edited by: mac_bolan00 ]
reyesaa
A second opinion...

DEMAND AND SUPPLY by Boo Chanco
The Philippine Star 04/23/2003

Good evening Mr. Chanco. I read your article today in the Philippine STAR. Just like you I had an opportunity to migrate out of the Philippines before I was 18 years old because my Mom was a Canadian citizen (petitioned by my older sister) and just like you I steadfastly refuse to migrate abroad. But unlike you I still believe in our country.

I am a product of the public school system for my education. A public elementary school, Philippine Science High School and the University of the Philippines in Diliman. I have always felt obligated to pay back this country whom I owe my education and I feel that there is something I can do for our country in spite of all the problems we are currently having.

I have nothing against those who leave the Philippines, but I believe that many of our basic problems stem from the fact that we don’t want to make sacrifices. That is why many of our youth would rather work for somebody else with a high starting pay than putting up his own business.

I have always believed that the solution to the problems in our country is more entrepreneurs who are willing to risk their whole lives trying to be successful rather than take the easy way out. I started my company Innovatronix with my last 15 days salary from Intel Semiconductors (my former employer) and in the past 15 years we have steadily grown.

One of the major reasons why I became an entrepreneur is that I would want to be a role model for young people in the field of technological entrepreneurship. I believe we would be able to do it in spite of all the problems that our country is currently having and I wouldn’t mind if it would take my whole lifetime to do it.

Please tell others that there are many people who believe differently and still believe in country. Mabuhay ang Pilipinas.
fray torquemada
QUOTE
Originally posted by reyesaa:
A second opinion...

DEMAND AND SUPPLY by Boo Chanco
The Philippine Star 04/23/2003

Good evening Mr. Chanco. I read your article today in the Philippine STAR. Just like you I had an opportunity to migrate out of the Philippines before I was 18 years old because my Mom was a Canadian citizen (petitioned by my older sister) and just like you I steadfastly refuse to migrate abroad. But unlike you I still believe in our country.

I am a product of the public school system for my education. A public elementary school, Philippine Science High School and the University of the Philippines in Diliman. I have always felt obligated to pay back this country whom I owe my education and I feel that there is something I can do for our country in spite of all the problems we are currently having.

I have nothing against those who leave the Philippines, but I believe that many of our basic problems stem from the fact that we don’t want to make sacrifices. That is why many of our youth would rather work for somebody else with a high starting pay than putting up his own business.

[b]I have always believed that the solution to the problems in our country is more entrepreneurs who are willing to risk their whole lives trying to be successful rather than take the easy way out.
I started my company Innovatronix with my last 15 days salary from Intel Semiconductors (my former employer) and in the past 15 years we have steadily grown.

One of the major reasons why I became an entrepreneur is that I would want to be a role model for young people in the field of technological entrepreneurship. I believe we would be able to do it in spite of all the problems that our country is currently having and I wouldn’t mind if it would take my whole lifetime to do it.

Please tell others that there are many people who believe differently and still believe in country. Mabuhay ang Pilipinas.
[/B]


Amen to the enterpreneurs...they're truly the engines of new progress...it doesn't even take to be a rich man to start something that's expansionarily beneficial. That's a hero!
reyesaa
QUOTE
Originally posted by fray torquemada:
[i]But the rich in the Philippines refuse to invest in its poor. the american rich sees the poor in a diff way--a venue to invest--that by investing on them and opening accesses to opportunities, they're not only faking civic responsibility, and making the population satisfied, they're also expanding their own wealth exponentially. Very few of the Filipino rich are investing on the poor. even by looking at it in a self-interest, greed perspective, it's quite workable in the philippines.
but then again, these are just conjectures w/ strong historical bases--the traditional rich in america simply saw the profitability in the expansion of wealth by spending money--in this case on the poor. Contended communities = lesser forces of deviation (and perhaps a better life for the majority).


It would be interesting to study the community of Harlem as a case for the development of lower income communities. Take a bus ride up Broadway from 125th to 181th St. and you'll find the place abundant small businesses like restos, laundromats, coffee shops, and low end apparel stores. What's astounding about it is that margins in the area are extremely low, owing to the fact that the market is composed of very poor people, mainly recent immigrants.

What keeps the place alive is something called "charitable investing". It comes in three forms. First, rich individuals, some of whom grew up in poor families, open businesses in the neighborhood even if these don't make a lot of money. Put it another way, they set up something just for the heck of creating jobs even if margins are low. Magic Johnson, for example, put up a couple of modern cinemas and a chain of Starbucks cafes. Second, overhead expenses such as rent and utilites are partially subsidized by the city government. This helps defray some of the business costs. Third, banks setting up branches in the neighborhood are required by law to keep a portion of their capital available in the locality for loans and small businesses.

I'm not sure if I like the idea of influencing free markets with public and social policy. But if it weren't for that, would these people have had the chance? So far, very few of these small businesses have become smashing successes. Most of them, for one reason or another, close shop after some time. However, there has been some sort of social benefit. Some imigrant families, for example, use them to get a "foot in the door" into US society. Once they've saved some, they start new lives in the suburbs. Some use the money to send their kids to good schools. Once the children have white collar jobs, their parents retire comfortably and the next generation can live a different lifestyle.

The third initiative seems to be very interesting. I'm not sure if banks in the Philippines are required to do the same. The NY city government's argument was that if banks are going to take money from the community and profit from it, they must also use the money to reinvest in the same community under good terms. In the late 1980s, Sen. Vicente Paterno filed a similar bill which passed both houses of Congress. However, Pres. Aquino vetoed it.
raggster
the second option is obviously out, since government cannot be relied upon to generate the amount of financial capital necessary for such an endeavor, even if only on the level of microfinance.

however, the LGUs CAN be a broker between financial resources, on both the national and international scales, and the local entrepreneurs. this would include local banks and private lenders, which leads to that third option. smile.gif

also, LGUs can broker information on entreprenurial processes and models for proprietorships and small corporations/cooperatives.

incidentally, we're currently formulating project proposals in this regard. if we have the timetable right, this can be fully implemented within five years starting last quarter of this year. biggrin.gif
mac_bolan00
rag,

if you guys are thinking of a pure credit model, similar to the grameen bank in bangladesh, don't bother.

so-called entrepreneurs will have to come up with their own capital to kick off a new business. there's nothing wrong with starting small (less than Php 10,000). what i find irritating as a banker is that most wannabe businessmen equate a bank loan with having a viable business. this is one notion they have to get out of their skulls.
reyesaa
QUOTE
Originally posted by mac_bolan00:
what i find irritating as a banker is that most wannabe businessmen equate a bank loan with having a viable business. this is one notion they have to get out of their skulls.


Just a side comment on entrepreneurial capital raising:

One of the reasons I recommended reading that book of Bob Reiss - "Low Risk High Reward". Lots of insight on how to build very profitable businesses without having to raise as much capital.

Until I found out that it was selling for PHP1,000 in the Philippines. To a small entrepreneur, that book is a CAPEX in itself.
fray torquemada
Reyesaa, great points on the economic revitalization of the Harlem area.
I don't know w/c part of nyc you're residing right now, but i am quite familiar with the area. i lived in both brooklyn and manhattan. as a matter of fact, it was only a year ago that i used to live in 98 and 5th. that's pretty much the "color-divide" for the borough. i don't know if you notice that after the 96th st stop (for the green trains 4, 5, 6), the white man is gone. anyway, this is beside the point. what i witnessed in the 80s and up to the mid 90s, the harlem neighborhoods were really down and out. it was an area of desolation and crime. Thank God for Giuliani. it has been virtually a 180 degree turn-around for that area. and at the heart of that transformation was and is still is the RULE OF LAW. If people feel safe, everything will pretty much follow. This was the Giuliani doctrine which really worked and still is working and being emulated in places like DC and New Orleans. Rule of Law simply encourages investors to invest; gives more reason for the little guy to be an enterpreneur; and preserves and expands the existing institutions of socio-economic devt.
Big government is not necessary in the expansion of wealth and the free market (duh?!). All that government has to do is establish an atmosphere of security and rule of law--no handouts, no welfare state, just a helping hand to help the little man help himself. Law and dignity indeed!
It's not too late for the Philippines. It does require a conscious effort by a solid majority to allow the Rule of Law to prevail--no patronage system, no blatant nepotism, a strong sense of personal responsibility, and virtual devotion to meritocracy.
Reyesaa--have you tried Sylvia's at 125th?



[ April 25, 2003: Message edited by: fray torquemada ]
reyesaa
I live in 113th & Broadway. Actually 110 to 121 in the upper west side is populated by students from Columbia-Barnard. 125 and up is West Harlem. Yes, I've eaten in Sylvia's. It's the favorite dining hangout of the Clintons, Sinatra (when he was alive) and the likes. Very very expensive food in a poor neighborhood but good for the soul nonetheless.
radonc
I am a physician licensed in both the Philippines and the United States. I chose to train and work in the Philippines as this is the land of my birth. When I was in college, I told myself as I told those closest to me that I would not contribute to the brain drain. This went on until medical school.

Right now, though, I am head of a family and raising a beautiful two year old daughter. I know I can provide a comfortable life for my family for as long as I am alive and able to work. But what will happen after that? Can I entrust the politicians who pass themselves off as "public servants" to ensure the future of my daughter? Will she even have a fighting chance given the present situtation and trend? Will I trust the "masses" to elect into office those that will help us out of this quagmire of recession?

Not to pull us out but to be merely examples to be emulated by the citizenry.

Not to give people fish, but to teach HOW to fish.

The answer is "I don't know." I am still sticking it out with the country and do what I can for it, but as each day passes, I get more and more afraid not for me but for my daughter.

Right now though, I am again faced with the dilemma of sticking it out here or taking an opportunity to practice abroad. The answer still is "I don't know,"
fray torquemada
QUOTE
Originally posted by radonc:
I am a physician licensed in both the Philippines and the United States. I chose to train and work in the Philippines as this is the land of my birth. When I was in college, I told myself as I told those closest to me that I would not contribute to the brain drain. This went on until medical school.

Right now, though, I am head of a family and raising a beautiful two year old daughter. I know I can provide a comfortable life for my family for as long as I am alive and able to work. But what will happen after that? Can I entrust the politicians who pass themselves off as "public servants" to ensure the future of my daughter? Will she even have a fighting chance given the present situtation and trend? Will I trust the "masses" to elect into office those that will help us out of this quagmire of recession?

Not to pull us out but to be merely examples to be emulated by the citizenry.

Not to give people fish, but to teach HOW to fish.

The answer is "I don't know." I am still sticking it out with the country and do what I can for it, but as each day passes, I get more and more afraid not for me but for my daughter.

Right now though, I am again faced with the dilemma of sticking it out here or taking an opportunity to practice abroad. The answer still is "I don't know,"


Sometimes the truth lies in the anecdotal. Country becomes a far second when you have a child and an apparently bleak future for your kid. Choosing your child over your country, in this case, is a no brainer.
Not to say that you give up your country, but if you've been a law-abiding, tax-paying, and productive citizen of that country, that country should give something back to you(to put JFK's 1961 inaugural speech in reverse).
But you're one of the heroes who's sticking it out. Stay on if you can. But if you can't help it (for your child's sakes), to bail-out is your right.

BTW, i finished w/ your batch.
radonc
QUOTE
Originally posted by fray torquemada:
Sometimes the truth lies in the anecdotal. Country becomes a far second when you have a child and an apparently bleak future for your kid. Choosing your child over your country, in this case, is a no brainer.
Not to say that you give up your country, but if you've been a law-abiding, tax-paying, and productive citizen of that country, that country should give something back to you(to put JFK's 1961 inaugural speech in reverse).
But you're one of the heroes who's sticking it out. Stay on if you can. But if you can't help it (for your child's sakes), to bail-out is your right.

BTW, i finished w/ your batch.



Well said.
reyesaa
One of the topics that was brought up during the NY alumni core group dinner w/ Fr. Nebres was whether or not there is hope for the Philippines. Accoridng to Fr. Nebres, one of the things impeding development is the lack of continuity at the national level. This is brought about by 2 main things: (1) periodic change in govt and (2) external factors such as natural calamities, Asian political & economic instability, etc.

At the end of the day, the question remains: "What can be done?". Acc. to Fr. Nebres, one of the strategies that Ateneo is working on is to promote development at the LGU level. This makes sense bec. LGU officials have direct access to their constituents and hold some political clout. They can also have a big effect in ensuring an efficient delivery of goods and services to stimulate local growth. This model is patterned after that of Italy - dysfunctional national govt, organized crime, etc. - but still one of the world's most prosperous countries due to the strength of their local institutions. Some examples where development has been led by LGUs are the province of Bulacan, Marikina City, and Naga City (the future home of large multinational food processing businesses).

Currently, Ateneo, through the School of Govt, is providing short courses for local officials such as mayors, councilors, and even some congressmen. It is also encouraging them to send their staff to study public policy at the university. There are also joint programs w/ the GSB to train local health officials.

These are just a few steps and there is still a long way to go.

[ April 27, 2003: Message edited by: reyesaa ]
raggster
actually, Ateneo School of Government is working with my office (Local Government Academy-DILG) on those courses and programs. in fact, Dean Henedina Abad is in our current Board of Trustees. we're working with her office specifically in a collaborative effort to formulate some aspects of the Urban Management Program funded by UNDP. (the details escape me, since i'm not directly involved with the UMD Program development team.)

the Urban Management Program aims to build up precisely on those strengths you mentioned - greater leverage of local officials over their constituents, direct control over goods and services delivery (ie. health care, medical supplies, peace and order). Bulacan, Naga and Marikina are currently being considered as benchmarks in the models of urban governance. (especially Naga City; so much was acheived during the time of Jesse Robredo, and the citizens have been the major players in sustaining his programs after he finished his term. excellent model for good urban governance - highly participatory and responsive.)

incidentally, this program, headed by the LGA-DILG, will be pilot-tested this year, and will be in full swing next year. on the side, we're developing the cultural aspects of urban governance (tourism, adaptive reuse of historical buildings and landmarks, pro-active preservation of local cultural practices), something that wasn't fully developed when UNDP handed us the project. we're also working on the Barangay Governance aspect of the program, further strengthening local governance at the barangay level.

the next few years will be exciting times for local governments as they continue to work on developing their local governance systems and processes. i'm glad to be a part of this next wave.

national government, on the other hand... wink.gif
beckham
But what really is the problem? The "hopelessness" is not limited to the Philippine government per se. The people are also "hopeless". 95% of the Filipinos are supposed to be educated and 98% of us are supposed to be abled in speaking english. with this in view, we are again, SUPPOSED to be doing far better than Malaysia, Vietnam and Thailand at least.
Government tie-ups with private sectors ad other economically stable countires can only give relief but not solutions. The problem lies with the educational system and the handling of the system.
americans are going crazy recruiting our teachers, and we allow them to, not because we want them to, but because we have no choice. why not MAKE choices?
i am not that knowledgable of the educational system of our country, but something is deffinitely wrong. i'm certain that we can do something about this, therefore, scratching out "hopelessness".
of course, this is just another angle we can look at besides politics and economic structures.
reyesaa
QUOTE
Originally posted by raggster:
the next few years will be exciting times for local governments as they continue to work on developing their local governance systems and processes. i'm glad to be a part of this next wave.



More power to people like you. smile.gif E ang Caloocan kaya, may pag-asa?
tennis_schlager
QUOTE
Originally posted by beckham:
95% of the Filipinos are supposed to be educated and 98% of us are supposed to be abled in speaking english. with this in view, we are again, SUPPOSED to be doing far better than Malaysia, Vietnam and Thailand at least.


where'd you get ur statistics?
i doubt 98% of us can "speak" english. and how can 95% of us be "educated" if our high school graduation rate is much lower than that. Or maybe you have a different idea of what to be educated is?

we've got to get rid of this sense of entitlement that we're supposedly to automatically be doing better than certain countries. They've put in a lot of work.

If we want to match their level of development, we have to do our own work too.
beckham
that is just it, we aren't doing enough.
by the graduates, what i meant was, the schools, specially public high schools alow as much people as they can to graduate even if they are not fit to because of limited resources and lack of space. so not all 95% have really attained graduating level. AND, our current system does not induce critical thinking and common sense. some "teachers" arent even teachers. a BS Math graduate teaches Filipino. go figure.
My statistics are from CHED and DECS (same file), 2001.
raggster
QUOTE
Originally posted by reyesaa:
More power to people like you. smile.gif E ang Caloocan kaya, may pag-asa?


if the likes of Navotas has hope, then i think Caloocan - its neighbor - has similar chances. but at this stage of development, it is largely the burden of the local leaders - mayors, barangay captains - to really mobilize the public to effect change on their levels. once they've created this atmosphere of participatory governance and have established participatory meaasures to promote and perpetuate that atmosphere, then progressive development can take tangible shape.

beckham, part of good urban governance is the delivery of basic services, including subsidized public education. (free public education is in the pipeline, but not in the immediate future, unfortunately.)

in your regard, this examines the fundamental alignment of our educational system. what do we want to result from our educational system? given this end-result that we want, what are the necessary competencies we need to teach our studentry? will it entail a major re-alignment of the current system? if so, then what are the costs? where shall these funds be sourced?

the point: it isn't that simple. wink.gif not that i disagree, but we're talking about a shift in the paradigm of our entire educational system. this isn't just a matter of improving a few things here and there; that will just result in a few things improving here and there, leaving everything else status quo (which we all agree to be severely lacking). such large-scale changes need long-term strategic planning, and until education is fully devolved to the local government units, national government will continue to play a crucial role in this. okay sana kung fully devolved na iyon to local government, kasi mas-defined ang local paradigms in terms of their community goals. mas nakababad ang mga local chief executives and their functionaries salugar nila, kaya lama nila kung ano yung kailangan nila as an LGU and as a community interacting with neighboring communities.

and like i said.

national government, on the other hand...
shwing
Census traces a path of skill and success to the Philippines
from the 29th of April 2003 issue of The Star Ledger of New Jersey

The house is modest and typical, a split-level on a middle-class Bergen County street. But the lively party inside, where the Baquiran siblings have gathered with their families to celebrate their sister Nina's birthday, is a snapshot of other measures of wealth.

Over a table piled high with roast pig and spring rolls, Lestrino Baquiran and six of his siblings who, like him, came to the United States from the Philippines discuss how they have toiled to find success in medicine and business.

They beam with pride as they introduce their children, from a Princeton neuroscientist to a 6-year-old piano player.

It is stories like the Baquirans' -- a tale of hard work, family ties, and skilled know-how -- that have propelled Filipinos to the title of top wage earners among all New Jersey ethnic groups.

The typical Filipino household earned $80,946 in 1999, more than any other New Jersey group with a population of more than 50,000, according to 2000 Census figures that are being released today.

Other prominent Asian immigrant groups -- Chinese and Indians -- were not far behind, while the median household income for most Hispanic groups was about half those levels. The statewide median income for all households in 1999 was $55,146.

These detailed characteristics of racial and ethnic groups are the latest in an ongoing flow of information the Census Bureau is culling from the 2000 Census.

The new numbers cover a wide range of topics, including the link between such seemingly unrelated subjects as race and commuting patterns. Only 6 percent of white residents use mass transit, the numbers show, but the percentage is near 20 percent for black, Mexican and Chinese residents.

Other numbers show, for example, that the percentage of Asian Indian households consisting of a married couple and children is twice the state average.

In general, the statistics show many demographic similarities that cut across the state's diverse makeup.

The median income numbers for most long-established white ethnic groups -- the Irish, Germans and Italians -- are nearly indistinguishable from each other across a broad range of categories.

And groups made up of immigrants share many common characteristics. But Filipinos stand out in several areas that translate into a higher household income.

Filipino households are far more likely than the average Jersey household to have two or three incomes. That trend closely follows a time-honored pattern among immigrants from around the world: pooling resources to buy their first homes and save for their children's education.

Many also continue to live in smaller houses despite their larger incomes. Only 29 percent of Filipino homeowners have houses with eight or more rooms -- a lower rate than those of many groups who earn less.

"You work till you drop so they can graduate," said Ramon Ermita of Bergenfield, whose wife, Lucille, in 1968 became the first of the Baquiran family to arrive in the United States.

Whereas many recent immigrants end up in entry-level jobs, Filipinos are clustered in relatively well-paying health care occupations.

Though Filipinos make up less than 1 percent of the state's population, one of every 23 doctors in New Jersey is Filipino, the Census shows, as is one of every nine registered nurses.

The Baquiran family reflects that pattern. Nine of the family's 13 siblings emigrated, all between 1968 and 2000. Seven of the nine work in health care professions; they include two nurses, a lab technician, a pharmacist and a doctor.

Since the end of World War II, the United States has turned often to the Philippines for medical professionals because Filipino schools are based on U.S. models and because Filipinos speak English.

It is a pattern that has fed upon itself. Once Filipinos were hired to work in U.S. hospitals, more and more began studying medicine in their home country as a ticket to success overseas. The trend has continued over the past two decades as U.S. hospitals seek to solve a nursing shortage through Filipino hires.

"It was an easy adjustment for me," said Lestrino Baquirat, a Manhattan cardiologist living in Alpine. He is the family's oldest sibling.

There are other factors contributing to the Filipinos' success that go unmeasured by the Census. At the Baquiran party, one of them was repeated again and again.

"The consistent thing among Filipinos is education," said Evina Torres, Lestrino's sister, who teaches English as a Second Language. "It is the most important legacy."

And many Filipinos favor private schools. Filipino children are twice as likely as other New Jersey students to be enrolled in private school, the data show.

"The very good schools in the Philippines tend to be Catholic schools, and when Filipinos come to this country, they tend to look for schools run by a religious order," said Jim Goodness, a spokesman for the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Newark.

Filipino families also maintain a strong commitment to each other, family members say. And the obligations don't end with Sunday parties.

"In the Philippines, there is no such thing as a college loan. The loan is from your family, and no one expects to be repaid," said Lestrino Baquiran.

Filipino immigration patterns may skew the income figures.

Like their doctors and nurses, many Filipinos with less education flee from the developing country's poor job market. Unskilled workers, however, are more likely to go to other places in Asia, such as Hong Kong, where they work as maids or in other unskilled positions, according to David Kang, an associate professor of government at Dartmouth College who is the author of a book on politics in the Philippines.

The Philippine government has set up an agency, the Philippines Overseas Employment Administration, specifically to maintain ties with the 7 million Filipinos living abroad. Filipinos send home $10 billion a year in remittances, a crucial factor in their homeland's economy.

"It's taken for granted that the government encourages people to leave because remittances are a huge part of the economy," Kang said.

Among the Baquiran siblings, the focus now is on the second generation. As the guests begin to leave and dusk settled on the back deck, Ramon Ermita sat alone at a plastic table, talking of the children, nieces and nephews who already have so much more than he.

"I want to make sure they understand we worked for it," he said. "That's the thing we need to make sure they get."

smile.gif Ang saya!
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