The Diploma Mill That Is AGSB
If you want to find the biggest money making graduate institution in Manila, look no further than Rockwell. Believe me, I speak from experience. In 2000, I enrolled in the Ateneo Graduate School of Business (AGSB) MBA program for reasons of convenience – it was 5 minutes away from where I worked and parking was not a problem (I know, how foolish of me). Since my firm was paying for my tuition, I was crazy enough to enroll without doing my homework – asking friends in AGSB if it was worth anyone’s while. I knew for a fact that DLSU’s Graduate School had a better reputation, but due to my demanding work schedule, I chose the easy way out and decided not to add more stress to my already busy life (thus parking and location became the crucial factors in deciding where to enroll).
Once classes started, I slowly realized that the professors were so lenient. If you missed an exam, you could always use work as an excuse. To make up for it, they’d just give you a special project. Thus, it was next to impossible (and I mean impossible!) to flunk a class. I remember a philosophy subject I took wherein I hardly attended class, and since there wasn’t any midterm or final for that class, I just submitted my 3 papers (on various topics that I’ve forgotten now) and voila – I passed!
Group work for cases/projects was usually divided between 10 to 12 people. These cases/projects are so easy, 3 or 4 people would have been sufficient. Now asking 10 or 12 people to divide the work ultimately breeds slackers. Consequently, no one learns anything.
The way they teach Accounting and Finance will take another essay to discuss, but I’ll try to give the gist of the whole thing. Having been schooled in DLSU’s way of teaching Accounting, I expected in-depth work on Financial Ratios, Income Statement Analysis, etc. with the strictest of standards (no margin for error whatsoever). But to my dismay, the professors in AGSB teaching accounting were so lackadaisical that homeworks were given out as group projects! How in the world are you suppose to learn if homeworks that are as easy as 1 2 3 are being done by a group of 12 students? Everyone slacks off due to several reasons – it’s not challenging enough, or there is too little work divided among too many students. Having come from an institution that gave me Accounting hell during my college days, this was unacceptable for me. Besides, every MBA program’s focus should be Finance. As managers, you have to know where the money is going (Expense Prioritization), and where the money is coming from (Revenue Stream). This is the meat of any worthwhile MBA program.
My final example (I could go on and on, but then I’d bore everyone to death) will sum it all up. We were once doing a strategic analysis in class on the successful strategies of the LingNam restaurant. To my surprise, the strategies in the case were 20 years old (e.g. what strategies did the restaurant implement in 1980, which consequently led to its financial success)! It was obsolete by today’s MBA standards! While other graduate schools study Harvard Cases about companies such as IBM or Enron (e.g. what are their marketing and financial strategies for the years 1999 to 2001), we were studying an old restaurant and its strategies 20 years ago! And these Harvard Cases are readily available on the net! It’s not like they’re difficult to get a hold of.
I finally got sick of everything and decided to take my graduate studies elsewhere.
As a postmortem, my reason for writing this essay is not to bash AGSB. This essay is a guide to all those who are trying to decide where to take their MBA. If it’s a choice between DLSU and AGSB, choose the former.
Full Version: A Sad Experience With AGSB
QUOTE
Originally posted by MOTMM:
The Diploma Mill That Is AGSB
If you want to find the biggest money making graduate institution in Manila, look no further than Rockwell. Believe me, I speak from experience. In 2000, I enrolled in the Ateneo Graduate School of Business (AGSB) MBA program for reasons of convenience – it was 5 minutes away from where I worked and parking was not a problem (I know, how foolish of me). Since my firm was paying for my tuition, I was crazy enough to enroll without doing my homework – asking friends in AGSB if it was worth anyone’s while. I knew for a fact that DLSU’s Graduate School had a better reputation, but due to my demanding work schedule, I chose the easy way out and decided not to add more stress to my already busy life (thus parking and location became the crucial factors in deciding where to enroll).
Once classes started, I slowly realized that the professors were so lenient. If you missed an exam, you could always use work as an excuse. To make up for it, they’d just give you a special project. Thus, it was next to impossible (and I mean impossible!) to flunk a class. I remember a philosophy subject I took wherein I hardly attended class, and since there wasn’t any midterm or final for that class, I just submitted my 3 papers (on various topics that I’ve forgotten now) and voila – I passed!
Group work for cases/projects was usually divided between 10 to 12 people. These cases/projects are so easy, 3 or 4 people would have been sufficient. Now asking 10 or 12 people to divide the work ultimately breeds slackers. Consequently, no one learns anything.
The way they teach Accounting and Finance will take another essay to discuss, but I’ll try to give the gist of the whole thing. Having been schooled in DLSU’s way of teaching Accounting, I expected in-depth work on Financial Ratios, Income Statement Analysis, etc. with the strictest of standards (no margin for error whatsoever). But to my dismay, the professors in AGSB teaching accounting were so lackadaisical that homeworks were given out as group projects! How in the world are you suppose to learn if homeworks that are as easy as 1 2 3 are being done by a group of 12 students? Everyone slacks off due to several reasons – it’s not challenging enough, or there is too little work divided among too many students. Having come from an institution that gave me Accounting hell during my college days, this was unacceptable for me. Besides, every MBA program’s focus should be Finance. As managers, you have to know where the money is going (Expense Prioritization), and where the money is coming from (Revenue Stream). This is the meat of any worthwhile MBA program.
My final example (I could go on and on, but then I’d bore everyone to death) will sum it all up. We were once doing a strategic analysis in class on the successful strategies of the LingNam restaurant. To my surprise, the strategies in the case were 20 years old (e.g. what strategies did the restaurant implement in 1980, which consequently led to its financial success)! It was obsolete by today’s MBA standards! While other graduate schools study Harvard Cases about companies such as IBM or Enron (e.g. what are their marketing and financial strategies for the years 1999 to 2001), we were studying an old restaurant and its strategies 20 years ago! And these Harvard Cases are readily available on the net! It’s not like they’re difficult to get a hold of.
I finally got sick of everything and decided to take my graduate studies elsewhere.
As a postmortem, my reason for writing this essay is not to bash AGSB. This essay is a guide to all those who are trying to decide where to take their MBA. If it’s a choice between DLSU and AGSB, choose the former.
The Diploma Mill That Is AGSB
If you want to find the biggest money making graduate institution in Manila, look no further than Rockwell. Believe me, I speak from experience. In 2000, I enrolled in the Ateneo Graduate School of Business (AGSB) MBA program for reasons of convenience – it was 5 minutes away from where I worked and parking was not a problem (I know, how foolish of me). Since my firm was paying for my tuition, I was crazy enough to enroll without doing my homework – asking friends in AGSB if it was worth anyone’s while. I knew for a fact that DLSU’s Graduate School had a better reputation, but due to my demanding work schedule, I chose the easy way out and decided not to add more stress to my already busy life (thus parking and location became the crucial factors in deciding where to enroll).
Once classes started, I slowly realized that the professors were so lenient. If you missed an exam, you could always use work as an excuse. To make up for it, they’d just give you a special project. Thus, it was next to impossible (and I mean impossible!) to flunk a class. I remember a philosophy subject I took wherein I hardly attended class, and since there wasn’t any midterm or final for that class, I just submitted my 3 papers (on various topics that I’ve forgotten now) and voila – I passed!
Group work for cases/projects was usually divided between 10 to 12 people. These cases/projects are so easy, 3 or 4 people would have been sufficient. Now asking 10 or 12 people to divide the work ultimately breeds slackers. Consequently, no one learns anything.
The way they teach Accounting and Finance will take another essay to discuss, but I’ll try to give the gist of the whole thing. Having been schooled in DLSU’s way of teaching Accounting, I expected in-depth work on Financial Ratios, Income Statement Analysis, etc. with the strictest of standards (no margin for error whatsoever). But to my dismay, the professors in AGSB teaching accounting were so lackadaisical that homeworks were given out as group projects! How in the world are you suppose to learn if homeworks that are as easy as 1 2 3 are being done by a group of 12 students? Everyone slacks off due to several reasons – it’s not challenging enough, or there is too little work divided among too many students. Having come from an institution that gave me Accounting hell during my college days, this was unacceptable for me. Besides, every MBA program’s focus should be Finance. As managers, you have to know where the money is going (Expense Prioritization), and where the money is coming from (Revenue Stream). This is the meat of any worthwhile MBA program.
My final example (I could go on and on, but then I’d bore everyone to death) will sum it all up. We were once doing a strategic analysis in class on the successful strategies of the LingNam restaurant. To my surprise, the strategies in the case were 20 years old (e.g. what strategies did the restaurant implement in 1980, which consequently led to its financial success)! It was obsolete by today’s MBA standards! While other graduate schools study Harvard Cases about companies such as IBM or Enron (e.g. what are their marketing and financial strategies for the years 1999 to 2001), we were studying an old restaurant and its strategies 20 years ago! And these Harvard Cases are readily available on the net! It’s not like they’re difficult to get a hold of.
I finally got sick of everything and decided to take my graduate studies elsewhere.
As a postmortem, my reason for writing this essay is not to bash AGSB. This essay is a guide to all those who are trying to decide where to take their MBA. If it’s a choice between DLSU and AGSB, choose the former.
I remember this exact same post on GA.net having read it there a few months ago. it'll be interesting to see what AGSB alumni will say about this. . .
Many say the DLSU MBA program is the epitome of a diploma mill. Easy admissions, low standards, and very easy to graduate.
In the Ateneo MBA program, while it's true that there are many who enter the program, only a very few actually get to finish ithe program. Many don't make it to their final year or reach the thesis stage.
In the Ateneo MBA program, while it's true that there are many who enter the program, only a very few actually get to finish ithe program. Many don't make it to their final year or reach the thesis stage.
i really don't believe in this idea of DIPLOMA mill. one's success doesn't really depend on the school...i still believe it lies with the student. although, it would be a value-added if you come from a school with a "GOOD" program/system.
QUOTE
Originally posted by MOTMM:
The Diploma Mill That Is AGSB
If you want to find the biggest money making graduate institution in Manila, look no further than Rockwell. Believe me, I speak from experience. In 2000, I enrolled in the Ateneo Graduate School of Business (AGSB) MBA program for reasons of convenience – it was 5 minutes away from where I worked and parking was not a problem (I know, how foolish of me). Since my firm was paying for my tuition, I was crazy enough to enroll without doing my homework – asking friends in AGSB if it was worth anyone’s while. I knew for a fact that DLSU’s Graduate School had a better reputation, but due to my demanding work schedule, I chose the easy way out and decided not to add more stress to my already busy life (thus parking and location became the crucial factors in deciding where to enroll).
Once classes started, I slowly realized that the professors were so lenient. If you missed an exam, you could always use work as an excuse. To make up for it, they’d just give you a special project. Thus, it was next to impossible (and I mean impossible!) to flunk a class. I remember a philosophy subject I took wherein I hardly attended class, and since there wasn’t any midterm or final for that class, I just submitted my 3 papers (on various topics that I’ve forgotten now) and voila – I passed!
Group work for cases/projects was usually divided between 10 to 12 people. These cases/projects are so easy, 3 or 4 people would have been sufficient. Now asking 10 or 12 people to divide the work ultimately breeds slackers. Consequently, no one learns anything.
The way they teach Accounting and Finance will take another essay to discuss, but I’ll try to give the gist of the whole thing. Having been schooled in DLSU’s way of teaching Accounting, I expected in-depth work on Financial Ratios, Income Statement Analysis, etc. with the strictest of standards (no margin for error whatsoever). But to my dismay, the professors in AGSB teaching accounting were so lackadaisical that homeworks were given out as group projects! How in the world are you suppose to learn if homeworks that are as easy as 1 2 3 are being done by a group of 12 students? Everyone slacks off due to several reasons – it’s not challenging enough, or there is too little work divided among too many students. Having come from an institution that gave me Accounting hell during my college days, this was unacceptable for me. Besides, every MBA program’s focus should be Finance. As managers, you have to know where the money is going (Expense Prioritization), and where the money is coming from (Revenue Stream). This is the meat of any worthwhile MBA program.
My final example (I could go on and on, but then I’d bore everyone to death) will sum it all up. We were once doing a strategic analysis in class on the successful strategies of the LingNam restaurant. To my surprise, the strategies in the case were 20 years old (e.g. what strategies did the restaurant implement in 1980, which consequently led to its financial success)! It was obsolete by today’s MBA standards! While other graduate schools study Harvard Cases about companies such as IBM or Enron (e.g. what are their marketing and financial strategies for the years 1999 to 2001), we were studying an old restaurant and its strategies 20 years ago! And these Harvard Cases are readily available on the net! It’s not like they’re difficult to get a hold of.
I finally got sick of everything and decided to take my graduate studies elsewhere.
As a postmortem, my reason for writing this essay is not to bash AGSB. This essay is a guide to all those who are trying to decide where to take their MBA. If it’s a choice between DLSU and AGSB, choose the former.
The Diploma Mill That Is AGSB
If you want to find the biggest money making graduate institution in Manila, look no further than Rockwell. Believe me, I speak from experience. In 2000, I enrolled in the Ateneo Graduate School of Business (AGSB) MBA program for reasons of convenience – it was 5 minutes away from where I worked and parking was not a problem (I know, how foolish of me). Since my firm was paying for my tuition, I was crazy enough to enroll without doing my homework – asking friends in AGSB if it was worth anyone’s while. I knew for a fact that DLSU’s Graduate School had a better reputation, but due to my demanding work schedule, I chose the easy way out and decided not to add more stress to my already busy life (thus parking and location became the crucial factors in deciding where to enroll).
Once classes started, I slowly realized that the professors were so lenient. If you missed an exam, you could always use work as an excuse. To make up for it, they’d just give you a special project. Thus, it was next to impossible (and I mean impossible!) to flunk a class. I remember a philosophy subject I took wherein I hardly attended class, and since there wasn’t any midterm or final for that class, I just submitted my 3 papers (on various topics that I’ve forgotten now) and voila – I passed!
Group work for cases/projects was usually divided between 10 to 12 people. These cases/projects are so easy, 3 or 4 people would have been sufficient. Now asking 10 or 12 people to divide the work ultimately breeds slackers. Consequently, no one learns anything.
The way they teach Accounting and Finance will take another essay to discuss, but I’ll try to give the gist of the whole thing. Having been schooled in DLSU’s way of teaching Accounting, I expected in-depth work on Financial Ratios, Income Statement Analysis, etc. with the strictest of standards (no margin for error whatsoever). But to my dismay, the professors in AGSB teaching accounting were so lackadaisical that homeworks were given out as group projects! How in the world are you suppose to learn if homeworks that are as easy as 1 2 3 are being done by a group of 12 students? Everyone slacks off due to several reasons – it’s not challenging enough, or there is too little work divided among too many students. Having come from an institution that gave me Accounting hell during my college days, this was unacceptable for me. Besides, every MBA program’s focus should be Finance. As managers, you have to know where the money is going (Expense Prioritization), and where the money is coming from (Revenue Stream). This is the meat of any worthwhile MBA program.
My final example (I could go on and on, but then I’d bore everyone to death) will sum it all up. We were once doing a strategic analysis in class on the successful strategies of the LingNam restaurant. To my surprise, the strategies in the case were 20 years old (e.g. what strategies did the restaurant implement in 1980, which consequently led to its financial success)! It was obsolete by today’s MBA standards! While other graduate schools study Harvard Cases about companies such as IBM or Enron (e.g. what are their marketing and financial strategies for the years 1999 to 2001), we were studying an old restaurant and its strategies 20 years ago! And these Harvard Cases are readily available on the net! It’s not like they’re difficult to get a hold of.
I finally got sick of everything and decided to take my graduate studies elsewhere.
As a postmortem, my reason for writing this essay is not to bash AGSB. This essay is a guide to all those who are trying to decide where to take their MBA. If it’s a choice between DLSU and AGSB, choose the former.
if you're not happy with AGSB, shift to another school. simple as that.
============================================
"everything happens for a reason".
QUOTE
Originally posted by naning1982:
if you're not happy with AGSB, shift to another school. simple as that.
if you're not happy with AGSB, shift to another school. simple as that.
i think he already did.
QUOTE
Originally posted by MOTMM:
I finally got sick of everything and decided to take my graduate studies elsewhere.
I finally got sick of everything and decided to take my graduate studies elsewhere.
I finished my MBA at the AGSB and found it to be quite a fulfilling experience. I also have a DLSU diploma so i think my sentiments are objective.
Regarding topics in Strategic Management, I believe that before you study the cases of companies like Citigroup, IBM, or the resurgent Harley Davidson Company (WHICH WE DID TAKE UP MIND YOU) you must start with a simpler more pedantic company like Ling Nam; effectively something closer to home that's easier for everyone to relate to. It's just that simple. Before you take up Strategic Planning you take up Principles of Management peppered with simple stories of local companies.
As for group work, it is well accepted that Andragogy necessitates a healthy exchange of ideas between individuals. This method is not archaic and is in fact utilized by the better Business Schools (DLSU included). That is the very reason why students in an MBA program must have relevant work experience so they can contribute to andragogy.
I strongly suggest that the thread starter bring his/ her concerns to the very people who can do something about it. Mr. Buenviaje, Fr. Ben Nebres, or even Dean Velasco of the Loyola School of Management. I have worked with these people and theyare all open to means of improving the educational system of the Ateneo. It is far more constuctive to do this than to wash dirty laundry on an Anonymous thread.
As for being a diploma mill, perhaps you should back your claims up with figures. I for one know that many do not complete the MBA because of academic difficulty.
The AGSB is not perfect. However, I daresay it is unjustly underrated.
Regarding topics in Strategic Management, I believe that before you study the cases of companies like Citigroup, IBM, or the resurgent Harley Davidson Company (WHICH WE DID TAKE UP MIND YOU) you must start with a simpler more pedantic company like Ling Nam; effectively something closer to home that's easier for everyone to relate to. It's just that simple. Before you take up Strategic Planning you take up Principles of Management peppered with simple stories of local companies.
As for group work, it is well accepted that Andragogy necessitates a healthy exchange of ideas between individuals. This method is not archaic and is in fact utilized by the better Business Schools (DLSU included). That is the very reason why students in an MBA program must have relevant work experience so they can contribute to andragogy.
I strongly suggest that the thread starter bring his/ her concerns to the very people who can do something about it. Mr. Buenviaje, Fr. Ben Nebres, or even Dean Velasco of the Loyola School of Management. I have worked with these people and theyare all open to means of improving the educational system of the Ateneo. It is far more constuctive to do this than to wash dirty laundry on an Anonymous thread.
As for being a diploma mill, perhaps you should back your claims up with figures. I for one know that many do not complete the MBA because of academic difficulty.
The AGSB is not perfect. However, I daresay it is unjustly underrated.
Kirk, great reply! Thanks for being objective. You've made valid arguments in defense of AGSB. Allow me to further explain some of the points I've raised.
I used the 20 year old LingNam case as an example of the below average quality of cases used in Strategy Management. You meanwhile say that it is best to start with simpler cases, before moving to more complicated ones. I'm with you on this, but do we really have to use an outdated oversimplified local restaurant? I'm sure there are tons of simpler cases out there that would have been more up to date. It's unthinkable for AGSB to use this case, to say the least.
Again, I must agree with you that group work is excellent since classmates learn form one another, especially if they work in different industries. In the US, group work is also typical in MBA school. But 12 to 14 people in a group to do a simple homework? It just ultimately breeds slackers -- consequently, no on learns.
My apologies, I do not have any figures to back up my claims of AGSB being a diploma mill (how many enroll versus how many finish the program) -- but how many students fail to complete the program because they find it too difficult? Then again, how many students fail to complete the program because they find that most of the classes are walk overs? For lack of a better English phrase, "gaano kadami ang nawalan na ng gana dahil kakaunti lang ang natututunan nila?" I stayed in AGSB long enough to know that most do not finish their program (yours truly included) because they were not challenged enough, not because they found the classes very difficult.
You yourself say that the AGSB MBA program is underrated (I'll assume when compared with DLSU and UP). The reason I feel this is so is because its (AGSB) Finance classes are not very difficult. Finance classes are the meat of any worthwhile MBA program. Thus, they should not be walkovers. Have you ever taken an Accounting or Finance class in DLSU during your undergraduate days? How about UP's Finance and Accounting classes? I can assure you, these classes are tough as hell. With AGSB, most of the work is done by a group of 12 to 14. Since the groups are too large to encourage real learning, mostly everyone slacks off.
It seems that the more I agree with you, the more I disagree with the finer details of your post. Nevertheless, I must once again commend your objectivity, and the relevance of the points you raised.
More power.
I used the 20 year old LingNam case as an example of the below average quality of cases used in Strategy Management. You meanwhile say that it is best to start with simpler cases, before moving to more complicated ones. I'm with you on this, but do we really have to use an outdated oversimplified local restaurant? I'm sure there are tons of simpler cases out there that would have been more up to date. It's unthinkable for AGSB to use this case, to say the least.
Again, I must agree with you that group work is excellent since classmates learn form one another, especially if they work in different industries. In the US, group work is also typical in MBA school. But 12 to 14 people in a group to do a simple homework? It just ultimately breeds slackers -- consequently, no on learns.
My apologies, I do not have any figures to back up my claims of AGSB being a diploma mill (how many enroll versus how many finish the program) -- but how many students fail to complete the program because they find it too difficult? Then again, how many students fail to complete the program because they find that most of the classes are walk overs? For lack of a better English phrase, "gaano kadami ang nawalan na ng gana dahil kakaunti lang ang natututunan nila?" I stayed in AGSB long enough to know that most do not finish their program (yours truly included) because they were not challenged enough, not because they found the classes very difficult.
You yourself say that the AGSB MBA program is underrated (I'll assume when compared with DLSU and UP). The reason I feel this is so is because its (AGSB) Finance classes are not very difficult. Finance classes are the meat of any worthwhile MBA program. Thus, they should not be walkovers. Have you ever taken an Accounting or Finance class in DLSU during your undergraduate days? How about UP's Finance and Accounting classes? I can assure you, these classes are tough as hell. With AGSB, most of the work is done by a group of 12 to 14. Since the groups are too large to encourage real learning, mostly everyone slacks off.
It seems that the more I agree with you, the more I disagree with the finer details of your post. Nevertheless, I must once again commend your objectivity, and the relevance of the points you raised.
More power.
The only time a business school should be accused of feeding its customers trivial (or useless) history lessons is when no matter is provided for current case studies, issues, and revolutions. The AGSB has NOT been lacking in elucidating on topics such as transition management (mergers and acquisitions), organizational diagnostics, and ethical controllership in the present day. I'm sure you must have attended these classes. You would be incorrect to brand the school a diploma mill simply because they discussed Ling Nam restaurant. Even business authors like David, Newstrom, and Davies use historical cases to bring their learners into the context of the subjects they're studying. For example, to understand the importance of corporate social responsibility, authors like Kleiner often bring up the situation of Eastman Kodak back in the 60's when they refused to hire African Americans. This case is old but still relevant. Similarly, many professors at the DLSU-GSB study the "bicycle" days of John Gokongwei from "before" the war. They use it as a case for building entrepreneurial spirit.
As for levels of difficulty in Accounting, I know DLSU's college classes are tough-as-nails. So is the Ateneo college's. Speak with accounting professors from both schools. They will tell you that it IS necessary for more stringent measures to be used for undergraduates since they lack the benefits of practical experience and because they need to develop a discipline for the courses as a springboard for future employment. College accounting courses will always be more exhaustive than their post-graduate (MBA) counterparts. Just look at the unit weights on their respective curricula.
Accounting is important. However, the meat of any worthwhile contemporary MBA program is Strategic and Human Resource Management. That is why the top business schools like AIM and Ateneo are refocusing their “culminating” courses on these subjects. Accounting is merely one tool (albeit important) in the comprehension of Strategic and Human Resource Management. In a world of fierce competition, organizations must learn how to place themselves at a strategic premium over competitors. Scholars are contemplating the development of an entirely new accounting system that places importance on human contribution to the welfare of the organization and not merely monetary costs and benefits.
I said the AGSB MBA is underrated because of a lack of a vigorous public relations arm to tell the public of its accomplishments. How many people for instance know that the AGSB was chosen as the provider of the Asian Development Bank’s MBA program? Or that AIM has Ateneans on their board of trustees and advisors?
The term “diploma mill” is very strong to say the least. I’m sure you wouldn’t make a general conclusion about the quality of post graduate Ateneo education based on a few sporadic experiences.
I really encourage you to bring your “legitimate” concerns (and you probably have some) to the university officials who are in a position to address them. We could argue relentlessly about your problems with the AGSB but what good would that do? I’m sure you’re well aware that if someone brings up a grievance in any competent organization, the complainant must identify himself to the members of management tasked with alleviating the problem. (His anonymity needn’t be compromised to the general public). Otherwise his complaint is rendered baseless or worse, could be treated as character assassination.
YOU’VE made the complaint. You do have a responsibility to let concerned officials at the Ateneo know of you concerns. I’ve given you names of some people. I could give you more.
Take the initiative.
As for levels of difficulty in Accounting, I know DLSU's college classes are tough-as-nails. So is the Ateneo college's. Speak with accounting professors from both schools. They will tell you that it IS necessary for more stringent measures to be used for undergraduates since they lack the benefits of practical experience and because they need to develop a discipline for the courses as a springboard for future employment. College accounting courses will always be more exhaustive than their post-graduate (MBA) counterparts. Just look at the unit weights on their respective curricula.
Accounting is important. However, the meat of any worthwhile contemporary MBA program is Strategic and Human Resource Management. That is why the top business schools like AIM and Ateneo are refocusing their “culminating” courses on these subjects. Accounting is merely one tool (albeit important) in the comprehension of Strategic and Human Resource Management. In a world of fierce competition, organizations must learn how to place themselves at a strategic premium over competitors. Scholars are contemplating the development of an entirely new accounting system that places importance on human contribution to the welfare of the organization and not merely monetary costs and benefits.
I said the AGSB MBA is underrated because of a lack of a vigorous public relations arm to tell the public of its accomplishments. How many people for instance know that the AGSB was chosen as the provider of the Asian Development Bank’s MBA program? Or that AIM has Ateneans on their board of trustees and advisors?
The term “diploma mill” is very strong to say the least. I’m sure you wouldn’t make a general conclusion about the quality of post graduate Ateneo education based on a few sporadic experiences.
I really encourage you to bring your “legitimate” concerns (and you probably have some) to the university officials who are in a position to address them. We could argue relentlessly about your problems with the AGSB but what good would that do? I’m sure you’re well aware that if someone brings up a grievance in any competent organization, the complainant must identify himself to the members of management tasked with alleviating the problem. (His anonymity needn’t be compromised to the general public). Otherwise his complaint is rendered baseless or worse, could be treated as character assassination.
YOU’VE made the complaint. You do have a responsibility to let concerned officials at the Ateneo know of you concerns. I’ve given you names of some people. I could give you more.
Take the initiative.
That's the problem with those graduates from that CPA school in Taft. Business is a one dimensional game to them. The "meat" of business is finance? This just goes to show their managerial upbringing. 
Kirk, I'm sure to take your suggestion into serious consideration.
Kainizares, you'll have to excuse my line of thinking regarding MBA programs. Different MBA programs specialize in different fields of business theory. Northwestern University's MBA program for example is known for its focus in Marketing. My countless hours of business classes have convinced me (though many would disagree) that the meat of any worthwhile MBA program is its Finance courses. As future managers, I feel that an MBA grad should know where the money is coming from (Revenue Stream) and where it's going (Expense Prioritization). This I feel is the focus of the MBA program in Taft (and in my opinion, rightfully so). Kirk according to his post believes otherwise, stating that Strategic and Human Resource Management are essential to any worthwhile contemporary MBA program. Though I do not agree with him, I hold his opinion in high regard.
More power to you both.
Kainizares, you'll have to excuse my line of thinking regarding MBA programs. Different MBA programs specialize in different fields of business theory. Northwestern University's MBA program for example is known for its focus in Marketing. My countless hours of business classes have convinced me (though many would disagree) that the meat of any worthwhile MBA program is its Finance courses. As future managers, I feel that an MBA grad should know where the money is coming from (Revenue Stream) and where it's going (Expense Prioritization). This I feel is the focus of the MBA program in Taft (and in my opinion, rightfully so). Kirk according to his post believes otherwise, stating that Strategic and Human Resource Management are essential to any worthwhile contemporary MBA program. Though I do not agree with him, I hold his opinion in high regard.
More power to you both.
MOTMM, kirk, and the other guys:
been reading your posts and i think that the discussion is very insightful, at least for me.
i took the AGSB entrace exam last november, i passed and i'm about to enrol this feb. ever since taking the exam, i've been passive about enrolling, it's my mom who keeps on pushing me to do so. i guess that for a guy like me, reading the first post here gives me goosebumps. do i want to take my MBA in a school like this? (referring to how MOTMM describes AGSB as a 'diploma mill' in the first post) but then kirk goes on to reason that the term 'diploma mill' is a bit too strong to describe the AGSB MBA program, and that the AGSB MBA program is worth something, not nothing. so for a guy like me, i'm now faced with questions like "is the AGSB MBA program really worth it?" or "should i enroll this feb?" or "what if MOTMM is right?"
i must say that reading the posts here made my previously confused mind, even more consfused. i'm a true-blue atenean (since prep) and perhaps the logical choice for an MBA degree for me is the AGSB. i work in RCBC plaza, the DLSU MBA program is here in my building, or so they say. friends have been asking me why i don't wanna go there, i always give them this stare that somehow says "no way" - but at this point, i'm having second thoughts.
kirk raised valid comments, and so did MOTMM. for one, i admire both of you for not getting into each other's cases. i see the discussion more as differing opinions, not as bashes - and i commend you for that. but the thing is... now that i've heard two very different opinions, what should i now do? should i go for my AGSB MBA or should i put it on hold? should i give it more thought? i'd like to hear what others have to say about this, not only kirk and MOTMM. i know that by inviting more opinions, i am only making the discussion more confusing for myself, but hey... i really want to hear what everyone has to say.
if you were to give me advice, would it be a 'GO' or a 'NO GO' for AGSB MBA? why? if it's a 'NO GO' where do you suggest i take my MBA?
TIA.
[ January 14, 2003: Message edited by: gsm-2001 ]
been reading your posts and i think that the discussion is very insightful, at least for me.
i took the AGSB entrace exam last november, i passed and i'm about to enrol this feb. ever since taking the exam, i've been passive about enrolling, it's my mom who keeps on pushing me to do so. i guess that for a guy like me, reading the first post here gives me goosebumps. do i want to take my MBA in a school like this? (referring to how MOTMM describes AGSB as a 'diploma mill' in the first post) but then kirk goes on to reason that the term 'diploma mill' is a bit too strong to describe the AGSB MBA program, and that the AGSB MBA program is worth something, not nothing. so for a guy like me, i'm now faced with questions like "is the AGSB MBA program really worth it?" or "should i enroll this feb?" or "what if MOTMM is right?"
i must say that reading the posts here made my previously confused mind, even more consfused. i'm a true-blue atenean (since prep) and perhaps the logical choice for an MBA degree for me is the AGSB. i work in RCBC plaza, the DLSU MBA program is here in my building, or so they say. friends have been asking me why i don't wanna go there, i always give them this stare that somehow says "no way" - but at this point, i'm having second thoughts.
kirk raised valid comments, and so did MOTMM. for one, i admire both of you for not getting into each other's cases. i see the discussion more as differing opinions, not as bashes - and i commend you for that. but the thing is... now that i've heard two very different opinions, what should i now do? should i go for my AGSB MBA or should i put it on hold? should i give it more thought? i'd like to hear what others have to say about this, not only kirk and MOTMM. i know that by inviting more opinions, i am only making the discussion more confusing for myself, but hey... i really want to hear what everyone has to say.
if you were to give me advice, would it be a 'GO' or a 'NO GO' for AGSB MBA? why? if it's a 'NO GO' where do you suggest i take my MBA?
TIA.
[ January 14, 2003: Message edited by: gsm-2001 ]
QUOTE
Originally posted by gsm-2001:
MOTMM, kirk, and the other guys:
been reading your posts and i think that the discussion is very insightful, at least for me.
i took the AGSB entrace exam last november, i passed and i'm about to enrol this feb. ever since taking the exam, i've been passive about enrolling, it's my mom who keeps on pushing me to do so. i guess that for a guy like me, reading the first post here gives me goosebumps. do i want to take my MBA in a school like this? (referring to how MOTMM describes AGSB as a 'diploma mill' in the first post) but then kirk goes on to reason that the term 'diploma mill' is a bit too strong to describe the AGSB MBA program, and that the AGSB MBA program is worth something, not nothing. so for a guy like me, i'm now faced with questions like "is the AGSB MBA program really worth it?" or "should i enroll this feb?" or "what if MOTMM is right?"
i must say that reading the posts here made my previously confused mind, even more consfused. i'm a true-blue atenean (since prep) and perhaps the logical choice for an MBA degree for me is the AGSB. i work in RCBC plaza, the DLSU MBA program is here in my building, or so they say. friends have been asking me why i don't wanna go there, i always give them this stare that somehow says "no way" - but at this point, i'm having second thoughts.
kirk raised valid comments, and so did MOTMM. for one, i admire both of you for not getting into each other's cases. i see the discussion more as differing opinions, not as bashes - and i commend you for that. but the thing is... now that i've heard two very different opinions, what should i now do? should i go for my AGSB MBA or should i put it on hold? should i give it more thought? i'd like to hear what others have to say about this, not only kirk and MOTMM. i know that by inviting more opinions, i am only making the discussion more confusing for myself, but hey... i really want to hear what everyone has to say.
if you were to give me advice, would it be a 'GO' or a 'NO GO' for AGSB MBA? why? if it's a 'NO GO' where do you suggest i take my MBA?
TIA.
[ January 14, 2003: Message edited by: gsm-2001 ]
MOTMM, kirk, and the other guys:
been reading your posts and i think that the discussion is very insightful, at least for me.
i took the AGSB entrace exam last november, i passed and i'm about to enrol this feb. ever since taking the exam, i've been passive about enrolling, it's my mom who keeps on pushing me to do so. i guess that for a guy like me, reading the first post here gives me goosebumps. do i want to take my MBA in a school like this? (referring to how MOTMM describes AGSB as a 'diploma mill' in the first post) but then kirk goes on to reason that the term 'diploma mill' is a bit too strong to describe the AGSB MBA program, and that the AGSB MBA program is worth something, not nothing. so for a guy like me, i'm now faced with questions like "is the AGSB MBA program really worth it?" or "should i enroll this feb?" or "what if MOTMM is right?"
i must say that reading the posts here made my previously confused mind, even more consfused. i'm a true-blue atenean (since prep) and perhaps the logical choice for an MBA degree for me is the AGSB. i work in RCBC plaza, the DLSU MBA program is here in my building, or so they say. friends have been asking me why i don't wanna go there, i always give them this stare that somehow says "no way" - but at this point, i'm having second thoughts.
kirk raised valid comments, and so did MOTMM. for one, i admire both of you for not getting into each other's cases. i see the discussion more as differing opinions, not as bashes - and i commend you for that. but the thing is... now that i've heard two very different opinions, what should i now do? should i go for my AGSB MBA or should i put it on hold? should i give it more thought? i'd like to hear what others have to say about this, not only kirk and MOTMM. i know that by inviting more opinions, i am only making the discussion more confusing for myself, but hey... i really want to hear what everyone has to say.
if you were to give me advice, would it be a 'GO' or a 'NO GO' for AGSB MBA? why? if it's a 'NO GO' where do you suggest i take my MBA?
TIA.
[ January 14, 2003: Message edited by: gsm-2001 ]
Hi!
If it's a choice between Ateneo or La Salle, I say objectively you'll be ok in either one. If you've noticed I defended the merits of the Ateneo without denigrating La Salle because both provide truly competent MBA programs. I've worked with people from both administrations.
Remember not to pass comprehensive, all-encomapssing judgement on a school's quality on the basis of a few scattered mishaps. I'm sure coming from the Ateneo you've had your share of unpleasantries with professors, systems, and culture. However, I believe that in general, you will agree that the education you've gotten is exceptional.
However, if you've already gotten one foot in the door of the AGSB, go ahead, enroll. You might be pleasantly surprised with what you discover.
And when you're there, never forget the MAGIS.
QUOTE
Originally posted by kirk:
Hi!
If it's a choice between Ateneo or La Salle, I say objectively you'll be ok in either one. If you've noticed I defended the merits of the Ateneo without denigrating La Salle because both provide truly competent MBA programs. I've worked with people from both administrations.
Remember not to pass comprehensive, all-encomapssing judgement on a school's quality on the basis of a few scattered mishaps. I'm sure coming from the Ateneo you've had your share of unpleasantries with professors, systems, and culture. However, I believe that in general, you will agree that the education you've gotten is exceptional.
However, if you've already gotten one foot in the door of the AGSB, go ahead, enroll. You might be pleasantly surprised with what you discover.
And when you're there, never forget the MAGIS.
Hi!
If it's a choice between Ateneo or La Salle, I say objectively you'll be ok in either one. If you've noticed I defended the merits of the Ateneo without denigrating La Salle because both provide truly competent MBA programs. I've worked with people from both administrations.
Remember not to pass comprehensive, all-encomapssing judgement on a school's quality on the basis of a few scattered mishaps. I'm sure coming from the Ateneo you've had your share of unpleasantries with professors, systems, and culture. However, I believe that in general, you will agree that the education you've gotten is exceptional.
However, if you've already gotten one foot in the door of the AGSB, go ahead, enroll. You might be pleasantly surprised with what you discover.
And when you're there, never forget the MAGIS.
2 thumbs up for you KIRK!
QUOTE
Originally posted by gsm-2001:
MOTMM, kirk, and the other guys:
if you were to give me advice, would it be a 'GO' or a 'NO GO' for AGSB MBA? why? if it's a 'NO GO' where do you suggest i take my MBA?
[ January 14, 2003: Message edited by: gsm-2001 ]
MOTMM, kirk, and the other guys:
if you were to give me advice, would it be a 'GO' or a 'NO GO' for AGSB MBA? why? if it's a 'NO GO' where do you suggest i take my MBA?
[ January 14, 2003: Message edited by: gsm-2001 ]
Hi gsm-2001!
I myself is considering an MBA degree and it's important to consider all factors in choosing a school.
I just like to share this article I got from www.thembatour.com. this is especially useful if you are also considering an MBA degree abroad. Good luck!
iNFRA
What do I need to consider when choosing a school?
· Your own career goals: Why do you want an MBA? To advance in your current field? To change careers? To start a business? To increase my earning potential? Examining your short term and long terms goals thoroughly will help you assess whether or not a school is the right fit for you.
· Length of Program: Most MBA programs are between 1 and 2 years in length . Program length affects the cost of the MBA as it determines how much time you’ll be out of the workforce, without income, and paying living expenses if you study away from home. Longer programs may offer more options such as electives or exchange opportunities.
· Cost of the Program: When calculating the cost of an MBA, be sure to include tuition and fees, books, and living expenses. The location of a business school can influence cost significantly, as the cost of living can vary greatly from one place to another . Research the kinds of loans, grants, scholarships, fellowship and assistantships that a school offers at their website.
· Location: Geography can affect the job and internship prospects available to students. Each business school’s location provides access to different types of industries or companies. Location has a tremendous influence on your cost of living. Location can also affect the international composition of the student body.
· Program Options: In addition to classroom study, MBA programs offer a range of opportunities to develop new knowledge and new skills. Electives, areas of concentrated study, exchange opportunities, internships, consulting projects can help you adjust your program to your goals. Be sure to research what each school offers.
· Student Body: There are great advantages to studying with students from diverse backgrounds and experiences. Group work is a large part of any MBA program and working with people of different ages, different nationalities, and different professional backgrounds is an important part of the learning experience.
· Faculty Expertise: Faculty expertise will be particularly important if you plan to specialize in a particular field of business. Information about the experience of professors at the business school is often on a school’s website.
· Reputation of the Program: How the school is perceived by not only potential employers but also the public is important to keep in mind when selecting a school. Accreditation is one way to determine a school’s standing and whether the program meets international standards.
· Curriculum: Most programs will have required courses to be taken in the first year . If you opt for a shorter program, you may want to ask, "How flexible is curriculum?" "Is it possible to specialize in a particular field-e.g. operations management, marketing, etc."
· Career Placement: Be sure to research which companies hire regularly from the school? Who recruits actively on campus? What percentage of graduates is being offered jobs immediately upon completing the program? What are the average starting salaries of graduates from the school?
· Career support services: What services are offered to alumni? For example, schools may make job boards available to alumni or may offer post-graduate courses developed specifically to allow grads to update their professional skills.
· Rankings: Business school rankings is a controversial subject. Keep in mind that these rankings are done by journalists, not business professionals or professors. Each publication stands behind their rankings data, but the data are not checked by an auditing agency and some of the more qualitative categories--for example, reputation--are immeasurable.
Each ranking puts a different value on different factors and qualities. As a result, rankings are very subjective. In addition, many ranked lists are not international in scope. Many universities question the validity of the data and ranking methods employed by these agencies.
If you do consider a school's ranking in your MBA search, take the time to understand how the publication values different characteristics of the business schools it compares. Rankings cannot measure how well a specific school or program meets your goals and will not reveal much information about course delivery, student life, or the curriculum focus. Selecting an MBA program should be based on your individual professional and personal needs.
· Accreditation: Unlike rankings, accreditation is a carefully developed process managed by professional organizations that evaluate business schools on the basis of commonly accepted international standards.
Accreditation Organizations:
· International Association for Management Education (AACSB)
· Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP)
· International Assembly for Collegiate Business Education (IACBE)
· Association of MBAs in the UK (AMBA)
· European Quality Improvement System (EQUIS)
nullWhat do I need to consider when choosing a school?
QUOTE
Originally posted by iNFRA:
[B]Hi gsm-2001!
I myself is considering an MBA degree and it's important to consider all factors in choosing a school.
I just like to share this article I got from www.thembatour.com.
[B]Hi gsm-2001!
I myself is considering an MBA degree and it's important to consider all factors in choosing a school.
I just like to share this article I got from www.thembatour.com.
thanks for your insights kirk, MOTMM (via PM), and infra. at this point i'm 80-20 on enrolling at AGSB, 80 in favor. i guess the only way to see whether or not MOTMM is right or wrong is to try it myself. perhaps then i'll post about how it will fare for me. i ranked high in the entrance exams and my mom was telling me that maybe the Lord is giving me a clear signal. i guess it won't hurt to try.
QUOTE
Originally posted by gsm-2001:
thanks for your insights kirk, MOTMM (via PM), and infra. at this point i'm 80-20 on enrolling at AGSB, 80 in favor. i guess the only way to see whether or not MOTMM is right or wrong is to try it myself. perhaps then i'll post about how it will fare for me. i ranked high in the entrance exams and my mom was telling me that maybe the Lord is giving me a clear signal. i guess it won't hurt to try.
thanks for your insights kirk, MOTMM (via PM), and infra. at this point i'm 80-20 on enrolling at AGSB, 80 in favor. i guess the only way to see whether or not MOTMM is right or wrong is to try it myself. perhaps then i'll post about how it will fare for me. i ranked high in the entrance exams and my mom was telling me that maybe the Lord is giving me a clear signal. i guess it won't hurt to try.
Good for you to give it a try!
I have another suggestion. You said you've been an Atenean since Prep right. Guess that means you know your way around Loyola. In order for you to make a really well-informed decision, why don't you talk to people in the faculty and/ or administration who have also worked in or graduated from Rockwell.
Off the bat, I can think of a few names:
Bopeep Franco of Ateneo CORD, Rudy Ang of Marketing and Law, Terry David of Leadership and Strategy have all worked with the AGSB. Ricky Mercado, Chair of L&S, and J.J. Agtarap, Loyola Schools Registrar both finished their MBA's at the AGSB. These folks are cool, hip and won't mind lending you a hand. I think you will get, at least in my opinion, more seasoned, mature, and impartial insight regarding the AGSB: far better than anything you could get from a message board.
Finally, remember that no educational system is perfect. And sadly, there are schools in this country that should not even be operating. There are however, institutions like the Ateneo and La Salle that have proven their worth through decades of excellent instruction. Branding any one or both of these schools as "diploma mills" mortifies their academic traditions.
I mean really, let's leave the teasing and occasionally "extremist" school pride to the UAAP basketball games. In the end, we all respect each other right?
That's my parting shot folks! Take care!
thanks kirk, words of wisdom indeed.
Masyadong serious ang thread na to...
Let's add some spice:
For idiotic guys like me, one major factor/basis for choosing a school:
- Girls!!!!
So san ba mas maraming maganda?
= )
[ February 03, 2003: Message edited by: G35 ]
Let's add some spice:
For idiotic guys like me, one major factor/basis for choosing a school:
- Girls!!!!
So san ba mas maraming maganda?
= )
[ February 03, 2003: Message edited by: G35 ]
gsm-2001,
Dude, if you want to go full-time, why don't you go to Diliman. Try UP-MBA's full-time program.
Masarap doon. To begin, you have a killer of an admission exam. No one I talked to regarding the entrance test thought of getting accepted after taking it (You get to see a lot of sullen faces after the test). Once you get accepted be prepared for a lot of sleepless nights(count your saturday and sunday nights in). You will face a lot of cases, a lot of exams and a lot of professors who love to give tons of reading assignments and homework. Moreover, you have very few people you can rely on. No teacher ever divided a class in groups of more than 5. In addition, if you happen to have the honor of being a part of one of Professor Johnny Lim's classes, prepare yourself to submit a 15-page written report every other day. Sarap yan.
Well, the preceding is a brief preview. if you do choose UP MBA Full-time, I'm telling you it will be worth it. You'll learn a lot.
Good luck!
By the way, if you miss the scenery at Loyola, choose U.P. The landscape is very similar to what we are accustomed to back on the School on the Hill.
Dude, if you want to go full-time, why don't you go to Diliman. Try UP-MBA's full-time program.
Masarap doon. To begin, you have a killer of an admission exam. No one I talked to regarding the entrance test thought of getting accepted after taking it (You get to see a lot of sullen faces after the test). Once you get accepted be prepared for a lot of sleepless nights(count your saturday and sunday nights in). You will face a lot of cases, a lot of exams and a lot of professors who love to give tons of reading assignments and homework. Moreover, you have very few people you can rely on. No teacher ever divided a class in groups of more than 5. In addition, if you happen to have the honor of being a part of one of Professor Johnny Lim's classes, prepare yourself to submit a 15-page written report every other day. Sarap yan.
Well, the preceding is a brief preview. if you do choose UP MBA Full-time, I'm telling you it will be worth it. You'll learn a lot.
Good luck!
By the way, if you miss the scenery at Loyola, choose U.P. The landscape is very similar to what we are accustomed to back on the School on the Hill.
any experience with ateneo is sad.
AW YEAH!
AW YEAH!
If I had to take my MBA here in the Philippines, U.P. would definitely my 1st priority.
I went to Ateneo for college and I really loved my stay there. Pero feeling ko to get the most out of my post-graduate studies, it would be good to be exposed to another school. Para maiba naman ang environment
Pero as of now, naku di ko yata kakayanin ang mag-full time student ulit. :eek:
I went to Ateneo for college and I really loved my stay there. Pero feeling ko to get the most out of my post-graduate studies, it would be good to be exposed to another school. Para maiba naman ang environment
Pero as of now, naku di ko yata kakayanin ang mag-full time student ulit. :eek:
QUOTE
Originally posted by Giorgio:
gsm-2001,
Dude, if you want to go full-time, why don't you go to Diliman. Try UP-MBA's full-time program.
Masarap doon. To begin, you have a killer of an admission exam. No one I talked to regarding the entrance test thought of getting accepted after taking it (You get to see a lot of sullen faces after the test). Once you get accepted be prepared for a lot of sleepless nights(count your saturday and sunday nights in). You will face a lot of cases, a lot of exams and a lot of professors who love to give tons of reading assignments and homework. Moreover, you have very few people you can rely on. No teacher ever divided a class in groups of more than 5. In addition, if you happen to have the honor of being a part of one of Professor Johnny Lim's classes, prepare yourself to submit a 15-page written report every other day. Sarap yan.
Well, the preceding is a brief preview. if you do choose UP MBA Full-time, I'm telling you it will be worth it. You'll learn a lot.
Good luck!
By the way, if you miss the scenery at Loyola, choose U.P. The landscape is very similar to what we are accustomed to back on the School on the Hill.
gsm-2001,
Dude, if you want to go full-time, why don't you go to Diliman. Try UP-MBA's full-time program.
Masarap doon. To begin, you have a killer of an admission exam. No one I talked to regarding the entrance test thought of getting accepted after taking it (You get to see a lot of sullen faces after the test). Once you get accepted be prepared for a lot of sleepless nights(count your saturday and sunday nights in). You will face a lot of cases, a lot of exams and a lot of professors who love to give tons of reading assignments and homework. Moreover, you have very few people you can rely on. No teacher ever divided a class in groups of more than 5. In addition, if you happen to have the honor of being a part of one of Professor Johnny Lim's classes, prepare yourself to submit a 15-page written report every other day. Sarap yan.
Well, the preceding is a brief preview. if you do choose UP MBA Full-time, I'm telling you it will be worth it. You'll learn a lot.
Good luck!
By the way, if you miss the scenery at Loyola, choose U.P. The landscape is very similar to what we are accustomed to back on the School on the Hill.
UP-MBA here, 1994!
MBA hasn't disappointed or surprised me. it's what i expected. course-wise, it's really undergraduate BA. but the quality of work you churn out, if not masteral level, must at least be 'professional'. to be honest, i sweated during my BS in college a lot more than MBA. but much of that is just gas. i didn't graduate MBA with distinction for one.
what i'm saying is, the dumbest reason one can have for taking MBA is wanting to attach a school name to an already stuffy-looking CV.
if MBA doesn't make one smarter, at least it begs one to grow up.
MBA hasn't disappointed or surprised me. it's what i expected. course-wise, it's really undergraduate BA. but the quality of work you churn out, if not masteral level, must at least be 'professional'. to be honest, i sweated during my BS in college a lot more than MBA. but much of that is just gas. i didn't graduate MBA with distinction for one.
what i'm saying is, the dumbest reason one can have for taking MBA is wanting to attach a school name to an already stuffy-looking CV.
if MBA doesn't make one smarter, at least it begs one to grow up.
QUOTE
Originally posted by Ann:
Pero as of now, naku di ko yata kakayanin ang mag-full time student ulit. :eek:
Pero as of now, naku di ko yata kakayanin ang mag-full time student ulit. :eek:
I had some reservations about re-adjusting to student life before entering b-school. I was already working for close to 5 years and had gotten used to the on-your-own work life of the business world.
However, the MBA learning environment turned out to be very different from that of the undergrad and more suitable for those with experience. The environment is tailored to simulate real-world business situations, hence the use of cases, internships, and industry projects. Unlike in college where students have to solve a lot of unrealistic word problems, b-school tests creativity, intuition, and endeavor to solve complex problems that do happen in the real world. Learning becomes more interesting and fascinating.There is also a strong emphasis on teamwork so that students are exposed to a wide diversity of insights from co-members of different backgrounds. Not only does student life become more bearable, it also becomes more enjoyable.
This scenario reminded me of a similar story I read sometime in the 90s about Yale’s School of Management (SOM).
Yale, as we all know, has been widely recognized as a pre-eminent university with strengths coming from liberal arts, medicine and law. Mention top B-schools and you’ll never hear it among Wharton, Harvard, Stanford and Columbia. That’s because we usually associate the school with where its core strengths are. Mention Ateneo and people think liberal arts and law.
According to the story, Yale SOM received flaks from its alums when they learned that their school ranked poorly in the Business Week surveys (below top 50). Since people look at surveys as “quick glimpses of performance,” the Yalies thought they were cheated, having spent time and money to this much vaunted “Ivy” and never received the kind of training and value that other students from other schools would enjoy. To express their anger, what they did was to let a plane fly in the sky with a huge banner bearing a vehement message for everyone to see: “[The names of Yale B-school deans.] All raiders will fall.”
Yale SOM didn’t take this matter lightly, but strove hard to improve their standards. Look at the latest rankings again, and you’ll see Yale on the upper tier (no. 19 to Bweek (2000), 14 to US News & World Report).
This story could be the same plight Ateneo GSB is now suffering. Although not a MBA student, I would receive comments from people that while Ateneo in the sprawling Loyola is always a knock out, its B-school in the capitalist business district still needs some rocking.
Ateneo simply can’t wait for 14 years to improve its academic performance. A school is like a brand: It’s not what it says about itself, but what it does.
I hate to be comparing notes but no matter how we remain blind, De La Salle keeps on improving things: standards, system, facilities -– everything for the Green Archer.
Nothing is stopping the school and nobody will.
Yale, as we all know, has been widely recognized as a pre-eminent university with strengths coming from liberal arts, medicine and law. Mention top B-schools and you’ll never hear it among Wharton, Harvard, Stanford and Columbia. That’s because we usually associate the school with where its core strengths are. Mention Ateneo and people think liberal arts and law.
According to the story, Yale SOM received flaks from its alums when they learned that their school ranked poorly in the Business Week surveys (below top 50). Since people look at surveys as “quick glimpses of performance,” the Yalies thought they were cheated, having spent time and money to this much vaunted “Ivy” and never received the kind of training and value that other students from other schools would enjoy. To express their anger, what they did was to let a plane fly in the sky with a huge banner bearing a vehement message for everyone to see: “[The names of Yale B-school deans.] All raiders will fall.”
Yale SOM didn’t take this matter lightly, but strove hard to improve their standards. Look at the latest rankings again, and you’ll see Yale on the upper tier (no. 19 to Bweek (2000), 14 to US News & World Report).
This story could be the same plight Ateneo GSB is now suffering. Although not a MBA student, I would receive comments from people that while Ateneo in the sprawling Loyola is always a knock out, its B-school in the capitalist business district still needs some rocking.
Ateneo simply can’t wait for 14 years to improve its academic performance. A school is like a brand: It’s not what it says about itself, but what it does.
I hate to be comparing notes but no matter how we remain blind, De La Salle keeps on improving things: standards, system, facilities -– everything for the Green Archer.
Nothing is stopping the school and nobody will.
sabato_jr, you have wisdom well beyond your years. I have spoken to a lot of Ateneans regarding AGSB, and 99% are blinded by their love for their school. They cannot even admit to themselves that AGSB is below par, when compared with the part time MBA programs of UP and DLSU. They seem to think that just because AGSB is part of ADMU, then it follows that the MBA program is excellent.
But excellent and AGSB are 2 words that I think should not go together. What kind of MBA program allows ALL (and I mean ALL) of its students to pass ALL (and again I mean ALL) of their subjects? It's freaking impossible to FAIL a class. Just freaking impossible to do so! If you miss an exam, just use work as an excuse and the prof will just give you a paper or a make up exam to cover for the points you lost.
If the profs don't start being stricter with missed exams (though there are other things they should improve on as well), then AGSB will always be what it's always been - a diploma mill.
[ June 27, 2003: Message edited by: MOTMM ]
But excellent and AGSB are 2 words that I think should not go together. What kind of MBA program allows ALL (and I mean ALL) of its students to pass ALL (and again I mean ALL) of their subjects? It's freaking impossible to FAIL a class. Just freaking impossible to do so! If you miss an exam, just use work as an excuse and the prof will just give you a paper or a make up exam to cover for the points you lost.
If the profs don't start being stricter with missed exams (though there are other things they should improve on as well), then AGSB will always be what it's always been - a diploma mill.
[ June 27, 2003: Message edited by: MOTMM ]
A Diploma Mill Called DLSU GSB
Here's a first hand assessment of the quality of DLSU's MBA program. Message: DLSU GSB is no better.(Note the last remark about the undergrad program.)
[ June 28, 2003: Message edited by: kainizares ]
Here's a first hand assessment of the quality of DLSU's MBA program. Message: DLSU GSB is no better.(Note the last remark about the undergrad program.)
QUOTE
Originally posted by bakekang in PEX
I couldn't agree more.
That's exactly the problem with La Salle's MBA program - the students. The curriculum is good; most of the faculty are top-rate but there are a lot of students who can only be characterized as mediocre. Maraming walang managerial (or supervisory man lang) experience para maka-pag-contribute ng valuable insights sa discussions. Maraming nakakaraos by freeloading. Walang contribution sa case studies kundi gumawa lang ng power point presentations. Pag individual case work naman, maraming nag-de-depend lang sa mga case studies na ginawa during the previous terms. They call it Old Testament. Tanong niyo sa mga La Salle MBA students. Alam nila yan.
Dahil nga maraming medicre students, in a lot of cases, in-a-adjust nang mga profs yung standard for passing, kasi kung hindi, maraming babagsak.
I think La Salle GSB should set higher admission standards. While on this subject matter, gawin na rin nila ito sa undergrad.
I couldn't agree more.
That's exactly the problem with La Salle's MBA program - the students. The curriculum is good; most of the faculty are top-rate but there are a lot of students who can only be characterized as mediocre. Maraming walang managerial (or supervisory man lang) experience para maka-pag-contribute ng valuable insights sa discussions. Maraming nakakaraos by freeloading. Walang contribution sa case studies kundi gumawa lang ng power point presentations. Pag individual case work naman, maraming nag-de-depend lang sa mga case studies na ginawa during the previous terms. They call it Old Testament. Tanong niyo sa mga La Salle MBA students. Alam nila yan.
Dahil nga maraming medicre students, in a lot of cases, in-a-adjust nang mga profs yung standard for passing, kasi kung hindi, maraming babagsak.
I think La Salle GSB should set higher admission standards. While on this subject matter, gawin na rin nila ito sa undergrad.
[ June 28, 2003: Message edited by: kainizares ]
kainizares, you are missing the point. Just assuming that DLSU's Graduate and Undergraduate academic programs are the worst in the country, does that make AGSB an excellent graduate school? Why make DLSU's academic programs the barometer of excellence? As long as DLSU is worse off than AGSB, then it's acceptable to be a below average graduate institution?
Read again sabato jr.'s post. Irregardless of what DLSU's standing is, AGSB still needs to improve.
Sadly, you have neither the mental fortitude nor the wisdom to discuss issues like this with the likes of sabato jr. or yours truly.
Read again sabato jr.'s post. Irregardless of what DLSU's standing is, AGSB still needs to improve.
Sadly, you have neither the mental fortitude nor the wisdom to discuss issues like this with the likes of sabato jr. or yours truly.
QUOTE
Originally posted by MOTMM:
kainizares, you are missing the point. Just assuming that DLSU's Graduate and Undergraduate academic programs are the worst in the country, does that make AGSB an excellent graduate school? Why make DLSU's academic programs the barometer of excellence? As long as DLSU is worse off than AGSB, then it's acceptable to be a below average graduate institution?
Read again sabato jr.'s post. Irregardless of what DLSU's standing is, AGSB still needs to improve.
Sadly, you have neither the mental fortitude nor the wisdom to discuss issues like this with the likes of sabato jr. or yours truly.
kainizares, you are missing the point. Just assuming that DLSU's Graduate and Undergraduate academic programs are the worst in the country, does that make AGSB an excellent graduate school? Why make DLSU's academic programs the barometer of excellence? As long as DLSU is worse off than AGSB, then it's acceptable to be a below average graduate institution?
Read again sabato jr.'s post. Irregardless of what DLSU's standing is, AGSB still needs to improve.
Sadly, you have neither the mental fortitude nor the wisdom to discuss issues like this with the likes of sabato jr. or yours truly.
It is you who is missing the point. Why don't you read your own post:
QUOTE
Originally posted by MOTMM:
I knew for a fact that DLSU’s Graduate School had a better reputation, but due to my demanding work schedule, I chose the easy way out and decided not to add more stress to my already busy life (thus parking and location became the crucial factors in deciding where to enroll).
I knew for a fact that DLSU’s Graduate School had a better reputation, but due to my demanding work schedule, I chose the easy way out and decided not to add more stress to my already busy life (thus parking and location became the crucial factors in deciding where to enroll).
Your own declaration about DLSU's graduate school having a better reputation put you in gear for making DLSU's program the barometer of of comparison to AGSB.
What you did was to compare two things only to weasel out by saying the better one isn't really the best one around.
Now does that sound like the behavior of someone with mental fortitude or wisdom?
[ June 29, 2003: Message edited by: kainizares ]
If you have read the whole thread kainizares, then you would have surmised that the discussion has moved on well beyond the point of comparing the 2 institutions. Kirk and I have already discussed the merits of both institutions. MacBolan00 and Giorgio have also put in their inputs about the UP MBA program.
At this point of the thread, it's not about one being better than the other. sabato jr. put it best since he was calling for improvement that would make AGSB at par with ADMU's law school or its other well known liberal arts programs.
What can I expect from someone like you kainizares? Your posts here in this forum speak volumes of your educational attainment. Unlike Kirk, MacBolan00, reyesaa (who have all posted in this thread), or yours truly, you don't even have a MBA degree. So unless you speak from personal experience with regards to getting a graduate education, then I suggest you stay out of an intelligent discussion such as this one.
At this point of the thread, it's not about one being better than the other. sabato jr. put it best since he was calling for improvement that would make AGSB at par with ADMU's law school or its other well known liberal arts programs.
What can I expect from someone like you kainizares? Your posts here in this forum speak volumes of your educational attainment. Unlike Kirk, MacBolan00, reyesaa (who have all posted in this thread), or yours truly, you don't even have a MBA degree. So unless you speak from personal experience with regards to getting a graduate education, then I suggest you stay out of an intelligent discussion such as this one.
Nice points everyone, i just wanna ask sumthing, when i read one of d posts i saw these lines.
MOTTM
"But excellent and AGSB are 2 words that I think should not go together. What kind of MBA program allows ALL (and I mean ALL) of its students to pass ALL (and again I mean ALL) of their subjects? It's freaking impossible to FAIL a class."
UP law's casualty rate is very low (those who leave are those who decide they don't want to pursue a career in law), and credit is given to its strict admission requirements but I haven't heard of anybody saying UP Law is a Diploma mill or any derogatory comments.
Love for your school is fine, but being blinded by it is another thing but this does not occur only in Ateneo, go around some other prominent universities and tell them "rumors" about their programs, if by chance ur lucky enough to meet the fanatics they'll go ballistic on you.
I have high regards to UP, Ateneo and LaSalle MBA programs since I have friends who are taking up MBA in those three schools.
In the end the school only serves as your training ground. if the style does not suit you then leave, I think you made the right choice going to another school rather that stick to a school which you think is not worth it.
MOTTM
"But excellent and AGSB are 2 words that I think should not go together. What kind of MBA program allows ALL (and I mean ALL) of its students to pass ALL (and again I mean ALL) of their subjects? It's freaking impossible to FAIL a class."
UP law's casualty rate is very low (those who leave are those who decide they don't want to pursue a career in law), and credit is given to its strict admission requirements but I haven't heard of anybody saying UP Law is a Diploma mill or any derogatory comments.
Love for your school is fine, but being blinded by it is another thing but this does not occur only in Ateneo, go around some other prominent universities and tell them "rumors" about their programs, if by chance ur lucky enough to meet the fanatics they'll go ballistic on you.
I have high regards to UP, Ateneo and LaSalle MBA programs since I have friends who are taking up MBA in those three schools.
In the end the school only serves as your training ground. if the style does not suit you then leave, I think you made the right choice going to another school rather that stick to a school which you think is not worth it.
QUOTE
Originally posted by MOTMM:
If you have read the whole thread kainizares, then you would have surmised that the discussion has moved on well beyond the point of comparing the 2 institutions. Kirk and I have already discussed the merits of both institutions. MacBolan00 and Giorgio have also put in their inputs about the UP MBA program.
At this point of the thread, it's not about one being better than the other. sabato jr. put it best since he was calling for improvement that would make AGSB at par with ADMU's law school or its other well known liberal arts programs.
If you have read the whole thread kainizares, then you would have surmised that the discussion has moved on well beyond the point of comparing the 2 institutions. Kirk and I have already discussed the merits of both institutions. MacBolan00 and Giorgio have also put in their inputs about the UP MBA program.
At this point of the thread, it's not about one being better than the other. sabato jr. put it best since he was calling for improvement that would make AGSB at par with ADMU's law school or its other well known liberal arts programs.
Last I heard this was a discussion thread. I am free to bring you up on anything that you post here. Besides I didn't see a "discussion closed" order from the mods.
QUOTE
Originally posted by MOTMM:
What can I expect from someone like you kainizares? Your posts here in this forum speak volumes of your educational attainment. Unlike Kirk, MacBolan00, reyesaa (who have all posted in this thread), or yours truly, you don't even have a MBA degree. So unless you speak from personal experience with regards to getting a graduate education, then I suggest you stay out of an intelligent discussion such as this one.
What can I expect from someone like you kainizares? Your posts here in this forum speak volumes of your educational attainment. Unlike Kirk, MacBolan00, reyesaa (who have all posted in this thread), or yours truly, you don't even have a MBA degree. So unless you speak from personal experience with regards to getting a graduate education, then I suggest you stay out of an intelligent discussion such as this one.
Hahaha! Now this has got to take the cake.
Now what makes you think that I don't have a graduate education? All I did was post somebody else's experience with DLSU GSB and you conveniently concluded that I don't have an MBA. I take it you didn't do well in the critical reasoning segment of the GMAT. Your evasiveness and credibility attackes demonstrate that you are unable to face the issue directly.
Does this behavior speak volumes of someone who has earned an MBA?
originally posted by kainizares:
This used to be an interesting thread with different ideas from different individuals using this message board. Now, we have kainizares.....what a shame.
Why do I think you don't have a graduate degree? You can't even spell correctly! It's A T T A C K S, not A T T A C K E S.
I've wasted enough time with you (and I'm partly to blame for this). You're not even in my league.
QUOTE
All I did was post somebody else's experience with DLSU GSB and you conveniently concluded that I don't have an MBA. I take it you didn't do well in the critical reasoning segment of the GMAT. Your evasiveness and credibility attackes demonstrate that you are unable to face the issue directly.
This used to be an interesting thread with different ideas from different individuals using this message board. Now, we have kainizares.....what a shame.
Why do I think you don't have a graduate degree? You can't even spell correctly! It's A T T A C K S, not A T T A C K E S.
I've wasted enough time with you (and I'm partly to blame for this). You're not even in my league.
QUOTE
Originally posted by MOTMM:
originally posted by kainizares:
This used to be an interesting thread with different ideas from different individuals using this message board. Now, we have kainizares.....what a shame.
Why do I think you don't have a graduate degree? You can't even spell correctly! It's A T T A C K S, not A T T A C K E S.
I've wasted enough time with you (and I'm partly to blame for this). You're not even in my league.
originally posted by kainizares:
This used to be an interesting thread with different ideas from different individuals using this message board. Now, we have kainizares.....what a shame.
Why do I think you don't have a graduate degree? You can't even spell correctly! It's A T T A C K S, not A T T A C K E S.
I've wasted enough time with you (and I'm partly to blame for this). You're not even in my league.
Hahaha!
I guess ad hominems are the most that can be expected from you and your fellow La Sallites.Throwing potshots and grammar corrections at the messenger only demonstrates that you can't confront the issue.By the way, critical reasoning weighs more on the GMAT than spelling. Of course if you really have an MBA from a high ranked school you would know that.
Why would anyone want to be in the league of someone who can't reason but is compelled to shoot his mouth off?
kainizares, you're the biggest loser here.
Just accept that you made a mistake and let the discussion flow freely. Admit that you fell into the atenean habit of "needing to be better than everyone else no matter what."
Whether or not you are is beside the point. If we were to accept that you are, would you then make a sensible contribution to this discussion?
Probably not, because you're too stupid.
Atenean.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
ha.
Just accept that you made a mistake and let the discussion flow freely. Admit that you fell into the atenean habit of "needing to be better than everyone else no matter what."
Whether or not you are is beside the point. If we were to accept that you are, would you then make a sensible contribution to this discussion?
Probably not, because you're too stupid.
Atenean.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
ha.
This discussion is interesting until kainizares reared his ugly head the second time (since no one paid attention to him the first time).
If anybody wants to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the DLSU MBA, start another thread. It doesn't take a Phd holder to figure this out.
If anybody wants to discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the DLSU MBA, start another thread. It doesn't take a Phd holder to figure this out.
I think this topic was posted for a purpose: to allow us Ateneans to see the shortcomings of our B-school Ateneo GSB, and see what we can do to fix them.
I think the original author is trying to send a SOS message. Let's interpret his message with an uncluttered mind. Remember that this is a first person account of someone who had a sad experience in our B-school, albeit erstwhile. Sure the author has something to gloat about after his experience over there, validating for himself that La Salle is not really second wind to Ateneo in academics, but his way of placing his finger on the GSB's weak spots serve as an opportunity for our Loyola and Rockwell administrators to know that those dirt in the corners need some cleaning.
If the author has said something that implies that his alma mater is better than Ateneo GSB, that's because he is proud of the stellar performance his alma mater has been doing as an institution. All of us have a right to be proud of our schools' achievements. We're proud of Ateneo; he is proud of La Salle. Let's not deprive ourselves of that joy.
If Ateneo GSB is good, then it is good, no doubt about that. However, any good school still has a share of deficiencies and these deficiencies should be dealt objectively regardless of how reputable we are as a university.
But, if Ateneo GSB needs to raise the bar, then raise the bar it must. Exponentially. What business do we have in running a B-school if we don't know how to apply our skills to generate solutions and bottom line results?
The Yale SOM story I posted basically tells of a fact that not all reputable schools are perfect in "everything."
Yale, in general, charges high tuition. My brother, who took graduate studies here (not in its SOM), once told me and my family how appalled he was when his dorm hall has sticky floors, the one that makes your shoes squeak as you walk past those old magnificent stone walls and long winding corridors. THE great and mighty Yale University, with sticky dorm floors. How in the world this expensive university can't maintain itself? Worse, its cafeteria serves the tasteless grub ever. What my brother did to survive was to eat peanut butter sandwiches and take coffee from vendo machines for the rest of his grad school life. Dad said, "Is that what I paid for your coming to Yale?" But my brother (he now works in NY) was quick to say that, beyond the bubblegummy marble floors and horrible dishes, studying in Yale is his most exhilarating academic experience. The geeks, preppies and nonconformists rule here, and they love the intellectual stimulation the liberal arts environment Yale proffered to all of them.
It is definitely hard to look at our own imperfections while judging other people's inadequacies. We as humans are not always the first to admit of our shortcomings. What we do is to remove the blinders that get in the way of our vision so we can see clearly and logically.
Instead of brooding with anger because someone from the enemy lines spells for us in lurid detail our own flaws, why can't we just do something to patch up those tiny holes that could get bigger and more damaging if neglected?
Since B-schools offer a place for MBA students to develop their critical and mental faculties, and problem-solving skills, is there a way that we can apply such skills to this situation? B-schools should focus more on practical-oriented skills that transcend far beyond theories and case studies.
Business schools should be one of the leading sectors to embrace innovation since they're in the business of molding leaders and managers. They should be the first to display that brand of excellence since they supply human resources that will play vital roles in corporations and businesses.
Ateneo GSB, if really true to the mission of producing well-equipped executives (and yes, it does produce fine alums), must continue to leverage its academic standing to keep itself at pace with the changing demands of the business environment. Which is the reason why many colleges, universities, and professional schools around the world relentlessly better themselves so that their future students will enjoy their unique academic breadth and depth in years to come.
I think the original author is trying to send a SOS message. Let's interpret his message with an uncluttered mind. Remember that this is a first person account of someone who had a sad experience in our B-school, albeit erstwhile. Sure the author has something to gloat about after his experience over there, validating for himself that La Salle is not really second wind to Ateneo in academics, but his way of placing his finger on the GSB's weak spots serve as an opportunity for our Loyola and Rockwell administrators to know that those dirt in the corners need some cleaning.
If the author has said something that implies that his alma mater is better than Ateneo GSB, that's because he is proud of the stellar performance his alma mater has been doing as an institution. All of us have a right to be proud of our schools' achievements. We're proud of Ateneo; he is proud of La Salle. Let's not deprive ourselves of that joy.
If Ateneo GSB is good, then it is good, no doubt about that. However, any good school still has a share of deficiencies and these deficiencies should be dealt objectively regardless of how reputable we are as a university.
But, if Ateneo GSB needs to raise the bar, then raise the bar it must. Exponentially. What business do we have in running a B-school if we don't know how to apply our skills to generate solutions and bottom line results?
The Yale SOM story I posted basically tells of a fact that not all reputable schools are perfect in "everything."
Yale, in general, charges high tuition. My brother, who took graduate studies here (not in its SOM), once told me and my family how appalled he was when his dorm hall has sticky floors, the one that makes your shoes squeak as you walk past those old magnificent stone walls and long winding corridors. THE great and mighty Yale University, with sticky dorm floors. How in the world this expensive university can't maintain itself? Worse, its cafeteria serves the tasteless grub ever. What my brother did to survive was to eat peanut butter sandwiches and take coffee from vendo machines for the rest of his grad school life. Dad said, "Is that what I paid for your coming to Yale?" But my brother (he now works in NY) was quick to say that, beyond the bubblegummy marble floors and horrible dishes, studying in Yale is his most exhilarating academic experience. The geeks, preppies and nonconformists rule here, and they love the intellectual stimulation the liberal arts environment Yale proffered to all of them.
It is definitely hard to look at our own imperfections while judging other people's inadequacies. We as humans are not always the first to admit of our shortcomings. What we do is to remove the blinders that get in the way of our vision so we can see clearly and logically.
Instead of brooding with anger because someone from the enemy lines spells for us in lurid detail our own flaws, why can't we just do something to patch up those tiny holes that could get bigger and more damaging if neglected?
Since B-schools offer a place for MBA students to develop their critical and mental faculties, and problem-solving skills, is there a way that we can apply such skills to this situation? B-schools should focus more on practical-oriented skills that transcend far beyond theories and case studies.
Business schools should be one of the leading sectors to embrace innovation since they're in the business of molding leaders and managers. They should be the first to display that brand of excellence since they supply human resources that will play vital roles in corporations and businesses.
Ateneo GSB, if really true to the mission of producing well-equipped executives (and yes, it does produce fine alums), must continue to leverage its academic standing to keep itself at pace with the changing demands of the business environment. Which is the reason why many colleges, universities, and professional schools around the world relentlessly better themselves so that their future students will enjoy their unique academic breadth and depth in years to come.
QUOTE
Originally posted by sabato_jr:
I think this topic was posted for a purpose: to allow us Ateneans to see the shortcomings of our B-school Ateneo GSB, and see what we can do to fix them.
I think the original author is trying to send a SOS message.
I think this topic was posted for a purpose: to allow us Ateneans to see the shortcomings of our B-school Ateneo GSB, and see what we can do to fix them.
I think the original author is trying to send a SOS message.
That's because you haven't read MOTMM's aka. CSR's in greenarcher.net aka. mattmurdock's in PEX same "Sad Experience" posts in the other forums. He may have tried to sound even handed here only because he unexpectedly got a lot of intelligent and credible counterarguments but take a step back and see the big picture behind this thread and you'll see that the thread starter's purpose was anything but benevolent.
[ July 03, 2003: Message edited by: kainizares ]
Now, kainizares is accusing me of being MattMurdock. Please just post something substantial in this thread. Other users of this message board have already called your attention regarding this.
[ July 04, 2003: Message edited by: MOTMM ]
[ July 04, 2003: Message edited by: MOTMM ]
QUOTE
Originally posted by kainizares:
That's because you haven't read MOTMM's aka. CSR's in greenarcher.net aka. mattmurdock's in PEX same "Sad Experience" posts in the other forums. He may have tried to sound even handed here only because he unexpectedly got a lot of intelligent and credible counterarguments but take a step back and see the big picture behind this thread and you'll see that the thread starter's purpose was anything but benevolent.
[ July 03, 2003: Message edited by: kainizares ]
That's because you haven't read MOTMM's aka. CSR's in greenarcher.net aka. mattmurdock's in PEX same "Sad Experience" posts in the other forums. He may have tried to sound even handed here only because he unexpectedly got a lot of intelligent and credible counterarguments but take a step back and see the big picture behind this thread and you'll see that the thread starter's purpose was anything but benevolent.
[ July 03, 2003: Message edited by: kainizares ]
Are you basing your opinion on his post alone or the reactions that it elicited? Are you to hold the threadstarter responsible for the posts of other people?
QUOTE
Originally posted by Colnago:
Are you basing your opinion on his post alone or the reactions that it elicited? Are you to hold the threadstarter responsible for the posts of other people?
Are you basing your opinion on his post alone or the reactions that it elicited? Are you to hold the threadstarter responsible for the posts of other people?
Where have I held other posters accountable for the threadstarter's post? What's wrong with telling others that there's more than meets the eye? I don't think I've attacked those who have reacted.
[ July 04, 2003: Message edited by: kainizares ]
QUOTE
Originally posted by MOTMM:
Now, kainizares is accusing me of being MattMurdock. Please just post something substantial in this thread. Other users of this message board have already called your attention regarding this.
Now, kainizares is accusing me of being MattMurdock. Please just post something substantial in this thread. Other users of this message board have already called your attention regarding this.
Condescending only goes to show that it is you who has nothing substantial to post.
tsk tsk tsk
QUOTE
Originally posted by kainizares:
That's because you haven't read MOTMM's aka. CSR's in greenarcher.net aka. mattmurdock's in PEX same "Sad Experience" posts in the other forums. He may have tried to sound even handed here only because he unexpectedly got a lot of intelligent and credible counterarguments but take a step back and see the big picture behind this thread and you'll see that the thread starter's purpose was anything but benevolent.
[ July 03, 2003: Message edited by: kainizares ]
That's because you haven't read MOTMM's aka. CSR's in greenarcher.net aka. mattmurdock's in PEX same "Sad Experience" posts in the other forums. He may have tried to sound even handed here only because he unexpectedly got a lot of intelligent and credible counterarguments but take a step back and see the big picture behind this thread and you'll see that the thread starter's purpose was anything but benevolent.
[ July 03, 2003: Message edited by: kainizares ]
The way I see it, MOTMM never had any malicious intent in starting this thread. He only gave due credence and attention to intelligent counterarguments in all the forums (well, at least prior to reacting to your posts which are not related to the topic to begin with). If it were otherwise, he should've engaged you in a pissing contest since your earlier post.
The good thing about this thread is that it has raised some issues and concerns regarding the Ateneo GSB. Would you rather have it that these issues not be raised at all? That would be to the detriment of the very institution you venerate. If you think that it's unfathomable that Ateneo GSB is beyond criticism, it is you who need to see the bigger picture.
[ July 04, 2003: Message edited by: Sporting_chance ]
[ July 04, 2003: Message edited by: Sporting_chance ]
QUOTE
Originally posted by Sporting_chance:
The way I see it, MOTMM never had any malicious intent in starting this thread. He only gave due credence and attention to intelligent counterarguments in all the forums (well, at least prior to reacting to your posts which are not related to the topic to begin with). If it were otherwise, he should've engaged you in a pissing contest since your earlier post.
The good thing about this thread is that it has raised some issues and concerns regarding the Ateneo GSB. Would you rather have it that these issues not be raised at all? That would be to the detriment of the very institution you venerate. If you think that it's unfathomable that Ateneo GSB is beyond criticism, it is you who need to see the bigger picture.
The way I see it, MOTMM never had any malicious intent in starting this thread. He only gave due credence and attention to intelligent counterarguments in all the forums (well, at least prior to reacting to your posts which are not related to the topic to begin with). If it were otherwise, he should've engaged you in a pissing contest since your earlier post.
The good thing about this thread is that it has raised some issues and concerns regarding the Ateneo GSB. Would you rather have it that these issues not be raised at all? That would be to the detriment of the very institution you venerate. If you think that it's unfathomable that Ateneo GSB is beyond criticism, it is you who need to see the bigger picture.
Where have I said the issues about Ateneo GSB should not have been raised? If you read my posts I am not commenting on Ateneo GSB. All I did was share someone else’s personal experience on DLSU GSB. The issues about DLSU GSB are valid since MOTMM brought it up when he started the thread and the only reaction he can give is “you obviously don’t have the mental fortitude ek ek ek” and grammar checks “Why do I think you don't have a graduate degree? You can't even spell correctly! It's A T T A C K S, not A T T A C K E S…” Unfortunately based on his own posts MOTMM is not exactly an authority on proper use of grammar, much less graduate studies:
QUOTE
Originally posted by MOTMM:
you don't even have a MBA degree.
(Observe the grammatical lapses of somebody who said that grammar is the proof of having a graduate degree. He can’t even get his use of articles right. MOTMM apparently did not do well in the GMAT analytical writing section.)you don't even have a MBA degree.
Is this the behavior of someone who gives due credence to intelligent counterarguments, much less someone with an MBA from a respectable institution? I guess not.
So far it is MOTMM who has been engaging in a pissing contest and not the other way around.
[ July 05, 2003: Message edited by: kainizares ]
The way I see it the best thing to do really is to have the AGSB conduct an internal audit of the MBA Curriculum, to see if it is really offering something that its studetns can eventually and immediately use. Second, I believe there has to be a stricter evaluation of the Faculty, since they constitute the frontline in any academic institution. The key here however should not be student satisfaction, but the real aptitude of the Faculty members themselves to teach at the Graduate level. Third, admissions requirements should be re-evaluated, perhaps to put more weight on student aptitude for graduate work as well as student need for a graduate degree i.e. Why are you taking up an MBA? A school for me becomes a diploma mill only when it is more interested in making a profit than in forming the best graduates it can who are capable of taking on real world challenges, especially in the professional world.
joescoundrel, more important to the quality of an MBA program are the students themselves. Going back to the personal experience of someone that I posted earlier:
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A Diploma Mill Called DLSU GSB (title is mine)
Originally posted by bakekang in PEX
I couldn't agree more.
That's exactly the problem with La Salle's MBA program - the students. The curriculum is good; most of the faculty are top-rate but there are a lot of students who can only be characterized as mediocre. Maraming walang managerial (or supervisory man lang) experience para maka-pag-contribute ng valuable insights sa discussions. Maraming nakakaraos by freeloading. Walang contribution sa case studies kundi gumawa lang ng power point presentations. Pag individual case work naman, maraming nag-de-depend lang sa mga case studies na ginawa during the previous terms. They call it Old Testament. Tanong niyo sa mga La Salle MBA students. Alam nila yan.
Dahil nga maraming medicre students, in a lot of cases, in-a-adjust nang mga profs yung standard for passing, kasi kung hindi, maraming babagsak.
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If a program is filled with mediocre students then the program itself becomes mediocre. Because majority of MBA projects are group based then outstanding groupmates raise the standard of achievement Substandard groupmates on the other hand erode the quality of work and the overall learning experience.
From what I know AGSB is the MBA training provider for organizations like ADB and Alsons. An interested applicant can call the AGSB to find out what other companies have agreements with AGSB. This means that a student can count on having classmates with managerial experience. It also has a finance cluster that groups students who are genuinely interested in finance, providing them with a learning environment that is best suited for them.
[ July 06, 2003: Message edited by: kainizares ]
------------------------------------------------------------
A Diploma Mill Called DLSU GSB (title is mine)
Originally posted by bakekang in PEX
I couldn't agree more.
That's exactly the problem with La Salle's MBA program - the students. The curriculum is good; most of the faculty are top-rate but there are a lot of students who can only be characterized as mediocre. Maraming walang managerial (or supervisory man lang) experience para maka-pag-contribute ng valuable insights sa discussions. Maraming nakakaraos by freeloading. Walang contribution sa case studies kundi gumawa lang ng power point presentations. Pag individual case work naman, maraming nag-de-depend lang sa mga case studies na ginawa during the previous terms. They call it Old Testament. Tanong niyo sa mga La Salle MBA students. Alam nila yan.
Dahil nga maraming medicre students, in a lot of cases, in-a-adjust nang mga profs yung standard for passing, kasi kung hindi, maraming babagsak.
------------------------------------------------------------
If a program is filled with mediocre students then the program itself becomes mediocre. Because majority of MBA projects are group based then outstanding groupmates raise the standard of achievement Substandard groupmates on the other hand erode the quality of work and the overall learning experience.
From what I know AGSB is the MBA training provider for organizations like ADB and Alsons. An interested applicant can call the AGSB to find out what other companies have agreements with AGSB. This means that a student can count on having classmates with managerial experience. It also has a finance cluster that groups students who are genuinely interested in finance, providing them with a learning environment that is best suited for them.
[ July 06, 2003: Message edited by: kainizares ]
All this MBA talk is truly enlightening, but if I may digress just a bit. Does the Professional School have a program for those in government work? I was wondering if Ateneo Professional Schools has a masters in Public Administration or an equivalent program and what it's like. I'm not getting enough hard info from the website or even from the Admissions people.
QUOTE
Originally posted by joescoundrel:
All this MBA talk is truly enlightening, but if I may digress just a bit. Does the Professional School have a program for those in government work? I was wondering if Ateneo Professional Schools has a masters in Public Administration or an equivalent program and what it's like. I'm not getting enough hard info from the website or even from the Admissions people.
All this MBA talk is truly enlightening, but if I may digress just a bit. Does the Professional School have a program for those in government work? I was wondering if Ateneo Professional Schools has a masters in Public Administration or an equivalent program and what it's like. I'm not getting enough hard info from the website or even from the Admissions people.
One of the Professional Schools is the Ateneo De Manila School Of Government. Check the Ateneo website admu.edu.ph and click on professional schools.
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